So far, I still can’t quite pull the trigger on taking Australia T3 or T4 with Japan (even with 6 fighters and really threatining and holding back the US/UK Navy). That being said in the 3 games I played, I have been able to really try Japan up in spectacular fashion, but it becomes irrelevant as it still swells up into the great Satan somewhere between turn 6-9. All the while the allies look like they do good on Germany, but not quite good enough to kill it by the time Japan turns into the unstopable juggernaut. It is starting to look like the Allies can not afford to give Japan this much attention, though I am still curious about this IC and more importantly the moves done w/o the IC to tie up Japan. Also I am starting to wonder, why not just use America and have Australia as “home base” for them, the Brits could build an IC late in the game if the opportunity presents itself. This is only 3 games though. It is almost as if the axis recoverd 3 times from the brink of disaster and still win.
UK/US Joint Strategy For Africa
OK. So still looking for what represents a standard opening for A&A41 for the US/UK in the Atlantic region.
Here’s what I have so far.
UK T1. Clean up German subs or Baltic Fleet if possible (depends on G1 battles), Possible kill on German Med transport if they went into Gibraltar unescorted.
Egypt to India reacts to Axis player trying to keep forces alive and hold as many IPC at the same time.
Australian and Indian fleet aim to move to UK eventually
Builds Carrier Trn Destroyer + a few land units Joins with remaining fleet in SZ2.
Finish mopping up any German subs.
Surviving Pacific ships begin moving to Panama to join up with British Fleet on US T2-3
Planes fly to Atlantic to help clear med of Italian ships when final battle comes there.
Build 1 TRN/1 Destroyer + Land units. Mixed between East and West coast. (also builds limited naval/air units if needed)
UK takes Gibraltar or Morocco?
Australian and Indian fleets to South Africa
Builds Ground units and planes for T3-4 move into scandinavia.
US Unloads in Morocco. Planes go too if Brits already landed there to build airbase.
US and UK combined fleets now
1CV 2FTR 4 DD 4TRN should be enough to defend against air attack (unless GE did really well on T1 or has built a bunch more planes )and all ships except Italians should be sunk
UK fleet goes north to support invasion of Norway/Finland. Australian and Indian fleets getting closer
US Might have enough to challenge Italians (Maybe if they built a few additional subs?) unless Italian fleet has fled and is out of range
US consolidates into Tunisia or Egypt depending on outcome of Desert war and whether GE IT have sent reinforcements to Africa
After Australian and Indian fleets link up to main British fleet both the Northern and Southern pipelines are now in full swing
Brits can be dumping 6-8 units a turn anywhere from Poland to Norway
US can also be dumping 4-7 units per turn into Africa over next few turns.
So my question is this
Does this system do enough to take the Pressure of Russia from GE/IT/JAP?
Is there a quicker or more effective way to get boots on the ground?
@the-spaceman A couple of things:
A1 - You might as well build a carrier because you start the game with a lot of free FTRs that can land on the carriers. Lots of free value + threat projection.
B1 - If Germany doesn’t take Egypt or Trans-Jordan G1, and if the UK Fleet off of Morocco survived, you might be able to send everything + the Bomber from UK to kill the Italian Fleet immediately. You’ll lose absolutely everything but the trade is absolutely worth it as it will secure Africa immediately.
B2 - You should be able to take Norway on turn 2. No idea why you’re waiting until turn 3.
A3 - If you built a Carrier A1 you can probably kill the Italian Fleet on A3 if it didn’t evacuate to the Indian Ocean/Pacific.
The Indian Fleet should not wait to link up with the Australian Fleet. If either of them survived, they should make a break for Europe ASAP to escape the Japanese.
UK in general should not be bothering with Africa. The general strategy should be:
US Navy - Camp out near Africa to threaten Italy/France/Scandinavia.
UK Navy - Camp out in English Channel to threaten France/Scandinavia/every territory bordering the Baltic Sea.
What you do from there depends on whether you’re playing with or without NOs (I would recommend playing without, but there are others who will vouch for NOs, so I’m not going to have that argument for the 4th thread in a row).
If playing with NOs:
-USA should build up to a 3-4 TT shuck. One group of TTs in US East Coast, one group of TTs in Morocco SZ, one group of TTs in the English Channel. Rotate them as needed to ferry troops from USA -> Morocco-Algeria and from Morocco-Algeria -> France. This forces Germany to constantly commit resources to defend/stack France (if they stack France, just land in Northwest Europe instead). By doing this, you’re taking away from the resources Germany can send east, which will take increasing amounts of pressure off of USSR and allow them to start fighting back around round 4/5 (and start transferring forces to fight Japan around round 6/7).
If playing without NOs:
-USA should focus on building a massive naval stack off of Africa so you can eventually seize Italy. You can send the occasional TT to France if it’s lightly defended but your main goal should be Italy. Killing Italy will force a response from Germany or they’ll lose the factory. And even if Germany does retake Italy, it earns them 0 income and you can just build up your landing force as many times as is needed to secure it.
No matter what, you should aim for the following general idea with UK:
1.) Sink the Baltic Fleet immediately (not possible if Germany did something weird like a Carrier opening, but if they do that USSR can punish them badly by being aggressive early).
2.) Take Scandinavia immediately, as Germany can’t reliably defend it until after they take Karelia, and even if they do retake it from Karelia, the units sent to fight over Norway/Finland are very far away from Moscow (which is great for the overall Allied cause).
3.) Once you have your fleet built up enough to not die to a German Air attack, aim to land in places where Germany either has no units or weak groupings of 1-2 INF. You want to force Germany to trade for as many small territories as possible (or big territories if they leave France unguarded), because it:
a. Detracts land units from the invasion of USSR.
b. Pulls Germany Air Power away from the USSR/potentially away from attacking your fleet.
4.) Once your fleet is at full power, prioritize attacking Baltic States and Karelia. If you attack Karelia, it gets rid of Germany’s ability to build units that are deep inside of Soviet territory and prevents them from being able to deadzone Archangel and Finland, which will secure the Soviet economy long-term. If you attack Baltic States,you’re cutting off the flow of reinforcements from Germany -> Karelia for a turn, as the Berlin stack will need to attack Baltic States before it can move into Karelia. This is good because it either gives USSR a breather from the German onslaught or might even give them an opening to either stack Belarus or outright attack Karelia.
That’s about all I can think of. Most of your other specifics seem good enough.
Hi Thanks for Feedback.
Just as a bit of background to explain the B2/US2 fleet combo in SZ12
The standard situation in most of out games is that Germany will grab Gibratar on G1 and by IT2 Italy will have both National objectives and is earning 20+
The Germans often build planes on G1-G2 and I have lost the entire UK fleet of 1CV 2 FTR 1 Cr 2DD to 5 FTR 2 BMR or something similar when the UK fleet goes into Sz6 or to Norway on UK2
Thus the detour on turn 2 to recapture Gib and combine the US UK fleet until t3-4 when I can build more ships.
@the-spaceman Seems like a good start. A few thoughts to throw into the mix:
I would say UK’s naval priorities should be first the Baltic fleet, then any stray transports, then any stray subs. The subs don’t do any convoy damage or anything like that, so they’re really just targets of opportunity; it’s not like you can safely leave British transports unattended anyway because of the German bomber, so the subs aren’t doing that much more harm. The Baltic fleet is top priority because it allows Germans to cheaply conquer Norway/Finland/Karelia, and because it’s too expensive for Germany to sanely replace.
The Australian transport can flee across Argentina to the Atlantic, but I would leave the destroyer behind to block a J2 attack on Australia – I think it does more good slowing down Japan and keeping some of the UK income than it does to get a destroyer added to your Atlantic fleet, like, 3 turns later. For similar reasons, I usually won’t move the starting US Pacific fleet to the Atlantic. If the Allies took unusually heavy naval losses, then maybe it’s worthwhile, but the Pacific fleet is earning you nothing the whole time it’s in transit through the Panama Canal. Having a few starting boats in the Pacific – even just CV, ftr, DD, tran – means that if you ever do need to upgrade the Pacific fleet into a formidable force because Japan is grabbing Alaska and Hawaii or whatever, then you can do so with one turn of purchases. If you can’t quickly reinforce the US Pacific fleet to the point where it can drive away the Japanese navy, then you might be forced to buy 10 infantry for the Western US instead or something similarly expensive and wasteful.
It doesn’t always make sense to build a huge Atlantic fleet at all as the Allies – sometimes you can sink the Italian fleet using primarily air power and subs, and/or build a pair of factories in Egypt, South Africa, India, or Australia. Some games you won’t have enough good safe factory sites, and some games you’ll need a big fleet because, e.g., Germany is heavy on air power (so you need protection for your transports) but short on infantry (so invading France is really attractive). On the other hand, if Germany trades its entire air force to wipe out your boats on G1, builds a factory in France on G1, and then drops 6 infantry there on G2, maybe just let the Atlantic navy go for several turns and rely on factories instead, or have the British build factories and let the Americans reinforce with a fleet into Morocco after they build up.