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Possible new varients using the new bulge pieces?


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    From the new bulge game:

    Battle of the Bulge has 4 new pieces. An American duce-and-a half, a German Opel truck, a 109 fighter and one hell of a cool revised Panther

    Since now we get to use these extra pieces the question comes up to take what we get and create some modifications to AA d-Day and possibly revised axis and allies.

    Also it has been brought up on other sites as to whether a D12 system could be installed into revised…

    now lets look at what the new units are…

    The americans and germans gets “trucks” not half tracks but trucks…

    Germany gets a new tank but its a beefer version of the Panther

    Germany gets a new plane a real fighter plane vs. the ju 87 from revised

    To extropolate the units we have:

    Mechanized Infantry-- this could represent mobile troops and smaller armor units, also guards or light armor units.

    The tank could be “heavy Armor” or SS panzer units/ or panzer grenadiers

    The new fighter can be Germanies fighter and the old revised ju87 could be a special ground support divebomber

    also we have to input the units to fit the values for d6 first then possibly convert them to a d12 system.

    but that would be for another post.



  • All very good ideas!
    Supply could be introduced as well to the other games, it would be based on the rules supplied with the new BotB game, if they are transferable without to much alteration.

    Thoes426 :evil:


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Peter you really need to participate in these forums more. Head over to house rules and give us a hand.



  • Imp -
    I’ll try my best to help out, but there is so much posted I’m a little unsure of where to start.
    Any guidance would help.
    Sorry for being so reclusive this past year, I’ve had issues at home that keep me occupied during my spare time, and it’s become difficult to get any free time at work to “surf” the forums like I once could.
    I hate being unable to participate like I once could.
    Do you have a PDF file of the groups efforts thus far?
    If so please send them to me via my listed e-mail address and I’ll print them out and read them as I can. (Aaron does this alot for me)
    Peter
    (Thoes426 :evil:)


  • Moderator

    Tekky has made a .rtf of what we have covered so far… Check out this thread:

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=7188.0

    GG



  • GG -
    There appears to be a problem with that site.
    It’s telling me the files have been deleted from lack of use.
    Is there any other way of view the work to date without digging through miles of threads?
    Thanks!
    Peter
    (Thoes426 :evil:)


  • Moderator

    Ok, I think I could help with that, try this:

    http://rapidshare.de/files/36137741/Axis___Allies_Revised_Historical_Edition_Phase_2_Draft_20060925.rtf.html

    I uploaded it off my computer…

    GG



  • GG -
    Thanks!!
    I got them and will begin reviewing them this evening.
    Again, Thanks for your help!
    Peter
    (Thoes426 :evil:)


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    On Tekkys signature line he allways has the latest version of the rules.

    AS far as bulge is concerned Im interested into turning it into the basic axis and allies system using all the new pieces and new markers. Thus ill keep the ammo and fuel counters and work them into the game to represent the limited ability to engage in movement and combat. I suspect all combat will be one round and thats it. I want to add tiger tanks and halftracks plus SS troops. I need some good NA’s exclusively for Germany and the allies. I have begun indirect work on this but will begin to commit my thoughts to paper and this site. AS you know i allready made a Bulge game last year and intend to use some of the best ideas from that and juice it up. Id like to make a simple card system for like random events. so like one card per turn.



  • Imp -
    I think brining Supply into the game is a must!
    Some feel it slows down the game and over complicates.
    I disagree.
    I think the addition of Supply adds realism.
    Have you ever read any of Ralph Boerke’s rules?
    He has a system for using Supply that is rather cool.
    It basically gives units an extra life or the ability to ignore the first hit assigned to it.
    It’s simple and does not slow down the game.
    I would prefer a system that allows units to attack and defend normally only if they have sufficient Supply.
    Units not having sufficient Supply would have their attack/defense factors reduced by -1.
    I also like the idea of limiting combat to just one round of dice exchanges per turn.
    This would slow things down for sure but I’m not looking for a fast game, I’m looking for an ADVANCED GAME built for the fantic player who can devote a full day or even better, a whole weekend to playing!

    Peter
    Thoes426 :evil:


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    repost these rules so we can sort them out and get to work.


  • Moderator

    currently we are talking in Phase 3 terms… If you want to talk about supplies it probably would be best to address it in a new thread since it is a new idea. I would like to join in on that discussions and hear what your ideas for it is…

    GG


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    This is another project for the upcoming bulge game. the system has to be totally different for this game.


  • Moderator

    Got that… I thought he was referring to adding Supplies into the AARHE game system…

    GG


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Too complicated for strategic level game. Operational level games are a different matter and are necessary in some cases.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Ok here we go:

    Germany
    Volks Grenadier Infantry  1 hex
    Fallscirm- Jager (Paratroopers)  1 hex (or by drop) 
    Panzer Grenadier (mechanized Infantry) 2 hexes
    Panzer Tank 3 hexes
    Tank Destroyer (self propelled artillery)  2 hexes
    Tiger Tank  2 hexes   
    Artillery  1 hex
    Heavy Artillery  1 hex
    All Air Units  anywhere

    American– British units
    Infantry  1 hex
    Airborne 1 hex (or by drop)
    Mechanized Infantry  2 hexes
    Tank unit  3 hexes
    Tank Destroyer (self propelled artillery)  3 hexes
    Artillery  1 hex
    Heavy Artillery  1 hex
    Anti-Tank Gun  1 hex
    All Air Units  anywhere

    Road bonus: .5 movement point. Movement along roads must be along the entire path from start to end or you pay according to other terrain. If moving legally along roads you simply ignore the terrain around the road hex.

    Stacking limits
    Each hex can be occupied by no more than four Allied ground units or six German units, while air units don’t count against these limits. During placement of new forces you can temporally exceed these limits but by the end of the movement phase all stacking restrictions must be observed. During combat retreats you cannot exceed the stacking restrictions at any time.

    Tiger Tanks
    These fearsome Tanks were easily superior to their Allied counterparts. In terms of armor protection and firepower they were the king of the battlefield. Each hit from a Tiger Tank must be assigned to enemy Tanks, followed by artillery units before any other unit is removed. Each Tiger Tank unit takes two hits to destroy. If it takes one hit it’s turned on its side. Tiger hits cannot be assigned unless the allocation has to go against armor or it’s the last type of unit left in the hex. If it’s not completely destroyed within the span of a single turn, its status is returned to normal and the unit is turned up. In some cases the action cards allow the Tigers to attack twice during a single combat phase.

    Paratroopers:
    Each Bomber can also drop up to two airborne units. This action removes the possibility of additional air missions. Each Airborne unit can only be dropped once per game, while the German player is limited to two normal drops during the entire game. One drop begins before the start of the game, so they only one additional drop of their choice. There is one action card which allows what would be yet another drop but only with this card. The drop can be within your own friendly lines or behind enemy lines not exceeding an eight hex range. The Allied player is limited to drops that fall within friendly hexes and cannot drop in enemy territory.

    Air Missions
    The availability air units depend upon the weather conditions for each turn. You may perform one of 5 missions for each air unit during each turn. Some missions such as Air Interception and Defensive Air Support (DAS) can be played during your opponents turn. In any case you may only perform one type of mission summarized as follows:

    1)  Close Combat Ground Support Mission: Each fighter can use its attack factor to attack any group of enemy ground forces. Any hits that result are removed from play (defenders choice) and don’t get an opportunity to fire back.

    2)  Defensive Air Support (DAS) Mission: If the enemy performs the above attack you as the defender can call up your own fighters and a round of aerial combat occurs. All plane hits are resolved and only allocated to participating involved air units. Additional hits can go against ground units.

    3)  Air Interception Mission: This is similar to DAS except your defending fighters try to engage the enemy before it can move over its targeted hex. Roll one D6 and a result of 1-2 results in successful interception. If you have Jet Fighters this moves up to 1-3.

    1. Air Interdiction Mission: Move any Bomber over any enemy occupied hex. The Bomber and any escorts (for protection from air interception) stay in the hex until the following turn. Any time any enemy unit decides to move outside this hex each has to suffer one D6 roll. A result of 1 destroys the unit, while 2-3 forces the unit from moving until the following movement phase. Example: a Tiger Tank that was stopped in the mechanized movement phase cannot move again until the following regular movement phase which falls on their next turn.

    2. Carpet Bombing: Each Bomber moves on any enemy hex and rolls to attack. Any hits taken preemptively are removed (defenders choice) and the defending enemy units cannot fire on the Bomber (except Artillery units).


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Combat Units

    German Divisions:

    SS Panzer Division (painted Black pieces)
    2 Tiger Tank units
    2 Panzer units
    1 Tank Destroyer
    3 Mechanized Infantry
    1 Heavy Artillery

    Panzer Lehr Division (Field Grey pieces)
    4 Panzer units
    1 Tiger tank units
    2 Mechanized Infantry
    1 Heavy Artillery
    1 Artillery

    Panzer Division
    3 Panzer units
    1 Tiger tank unit
    2 Mechanized Infantry
    1 Heavy Artillery
    1 Artillery

    Panzer Grenadier Division
    4 Mechanized Infantry
    2 Panzer units
    1 Artillery

    Mechanized Brigade
    1 Tiger Tank unit
    1 Mechanized Infantry
    1 Heavy Artillery

    Volks-Grenadier Division (Infantry Division)
    4 Infantry units
    1 Artillery

    Volks-Grenadier Regiment
    2 Infantry units

    Fallscirm- Jager (Paratrooper Division)
    4 Infantry units

    Volkswerfer Brigades
    2 Neberwerfer Rocket units

    American/ British Divisions:
    Armored Division
    2 Tank units
    1 Anti-Tank Gun
    2 Mechanized Infantry
    1 Heavy Artillery
    1 Artillery

    Armored Brigade
    1 Tank unit
    1 Tank Destroyer
    1 Heavy Artillery

    Infantry Division
    4 Infantry units
    1 Artillery unit

    Airborne Division
    4 Infantry units

    revised OOB germans:

    German Forces:
    (All placed in eastern arrival hexes)

    At Start German OOB:

    6th SS panzer Army- Sepp Dietrich

    LXVII Army corps
    272 VG Infantry division

    1st SS Panzer corps
    277th VG Infantry division
    12th VG Infantry division
    1st SS Panzer division
    12th SS Panzer division
    3rd Airborne Division (Fallschirmjager)
    150th Panzer Brigade

    5th Panzer Army: Manteuffel
    LXVI Army corps
    18th VG Infantry Division
    62nd Infantry division

    LVIII Panzer Corps
    560 VG Infantry division
    116th Panzer Division

    XLVII Panzer corps
    2nd Panzer division
    Panzer Lehr Division
    26th VG Infantry division

    7th Army-Brandenberger

    LXXXV Army corps
    5th Airborne Division (Fallschirmjager)
    352 VG Infantry division

    LXXX Army corps
    212 VG Infantry division

    American and British Forces: at start

    American OOB:
    1st army-Gen. Hodges
    V corps: Gen. Gerow
    78th Infantry division
    99th Infantry division
    2nd Infantry division
    102nd Armored Brigade

    VIII corps: Gen. Middleton
    106th Infantry division
    28th Infantry division
    4th Infantry division
    9th Armored division

    note: use the player cards for the bulge game for reinforcements. I cant see how accurate it is so its hard to speculate on what to do.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    German Forces:
    Unit Type Movement Attack Defense Notes

    Tiger Tank 2 9 9 Takes 2 hits, attacks are preemptive  against enemy Tanks first
    Panzer tank 3 6 7
    Panzer Grenadier
    (Mechanized Infantry) 3 4 6
    Tank Destroyer 2 7 8 All hits go against enemy armor first
    Volks- Grenadier 1 2 4
    Fallscirm- Jager (airborne) 1 5 5
    Artillery 1 4 4 1  Hex range
    Heavy Artillery 1 6 4 2 Hex range
    Neberwerfer Rocket 1  + +  +/1 Hex range, each enemy rolls one d6 1=hit, 2-3= unit shocked.
    Fighters any 6 8
    Jet Fighter any 6x2 10 No interception
    Bomber any 8 2 Preemptive attack, ground forces cannot fire back (except Artillery)
    Jet Bomber any 6 9 No interception

    Allied Forces:
    Unit Type Movement Attack Defense Notes

    Tank 3 4 3
    Mechanized Infantry 2 3 3
    Tank Destroyer 3 4 3 All hits go against enemy armor first
    Anti -Tank Gun 1 3 2 All hits go against enemy armor first
    Airborne 1 2 2
    Artillery 1 2 2 1  Hex range
    Heavy Artillery 1 4 2 2 Hex range
    Fighters any 2 3
    Bomber any 3 2 Preemptive attack, ground forces cannot fire back (except Artillery)

    all combat is one round duration. all air combat occurs first. if any extra planes are availible they can go against land targets. only artillery can hit planes.

    Artillery Guns Anti-Air Defense
    Artillery (both regular and heavy Artillery) units may fire at each air unit entering or flying across the air space of its territory during attacking combat movement. Each defending artillery unit rolls against each plane and a result of a 1 on a D12 results in a hit. The maximum number of Artillery units that can roll against planes in this fashion is limited to two. Note: each plane is rolled separately by type and can only be attacked preemptively. Example: 2 Allied Bombers and 2 Fighters attack a hex with German forces including one Artillery unit. The two Bombers are rolled together, yielding results of 3 and 5 (both misses). Next two fighters are rolled with results of 1 and 2 (one hit). One fighter is destroyed with the remaining planes able to perform their combat mission. Remember: each defending Artillery unit has one first shot attack at each air unit. Losses are removed immediately before the air units’ fire back. Attacks by the surviving planes can then proceed in the normal fashion.

    I will adjust values for d12 dice. Note: allies not finished.

    still need some good supply rules but i need more information on the OOB supply rules. might just use them.

    each ammo chit allows one combat action
    each fuel drum chit allows one hex of units to move full movement

    germany starts with x number of chits in each catagory

    allies do not have a limit but some limit on combat actions.

    use OOB air power rules but add some rules for jet power say one plane for germany is jet.

    also need some optional rocket rules V weapons:

    V-2 Rockets
    Allow the German player to conduct one V-2 attack per turn. This may be in addition to a similar event from an action card. The attack can be conducted into any Allied hex and each ground unit rolls with 1-2 counted as a hit, 3-4 unit is “suppressed” and cannot move that turn , and 5-6 no effect. The German player has six such attacks per game. Attacks can also be conducted against Allied fuel depots again hitting on a 1-2.

    Jet Power
    Allow the German player to substitute up to two of his daily air power allocations for one Jet fighter (Me-262) and one Jet Bomber (Ar-234) each turn till the end of the game. They can “save” this allotment until a specific turn and launch the balance of what was withheld until a turn of their choosing. Air Interception missions cannot be performed against Jet planes. They also cannot conduct Paratrooper drops. During aerial combat each Jet Fighter rolls twice against enemy planes. Secondly, allow the Allied player one Jet Fighter (Gloucester Meteor) each turn which performs like any other fighter except it can also avoid all enemy air interceptions.

    using jet power may involve using additional air units for allies.


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