• 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    Janus

    I redid your numbers and with correct costs for classic game.

    Your ideas. Using d10 dice
    Inf C3 A1 1.60 10% D3 4.80 30%
    Tank C5 A5 2.88 50% D4 2.30 40%
    Fig C12 A4 .40 40% D7 .70 70%
    Bomb C15 A7 .45 D1 .06 10%

    BB C24 A7 .58 70% D7 .58 70%
    SS C8 A4 .90 40% D3 .68 30%
    CV C18 A1 .04 10% D4 .18 40%
    TR C8 A0 .00 00% D1 .23 10%

    Using d6 dice
    Inf C3 A1 2.67 16% D2 5.33 33%
    Tank C5 A3 2.88 50% D2 1.92 33%
    Fig C12 A3 .50 50% D4 .67 66%
    Bomb C15 A4 .43 66% D1 .11 16%

    BB C24 A4 .76 66% D4 .76 66%
    SS C8 A2 .75 33% D2 .75 33%
    CV C18 A1 .07 16% D3 .22 50%
    TR C8 A0 .00 00% D1 .38 16%

    OK. My suggestions would be 2 sets of inf values to test and 1 tank value test with the naval units getting closer to d6 dice and probably based on not many units in game you would use more of the % values than the decimal numbers mostly. As you see how some pieces are not worth buying ( using decimal numbers ) and yes the transport and or sub going to be fodder.

    Inf C3 A1 1.60 10% D3 4.80 30%
    or
    Inf C3 A2 3.20 20% D3 4.80 30% since no art boost
    Tank C5 A5 2.88 50% D4 2.30 40%
    or
    Tank C5 A5 2.88 50% D5 2.88 50% keeps up with inf attack new value
    Fig C12 A5 .50 50% D7 .70 70% in line with tank on A
    Bomb C15 A7 .45 70% D2 .11 20%

    BB C24 A7 .58 70% D7 .58 70%
    SS C8 A4 .90 40% D3 .68 30%
    CV C18 A2 .07 20% D5 .19 50%
    TR C8 A0 .00 0% D2 .38 20%

    The BB you could maybe go to AD8 based on nobody gonna buy them but maybe 1 if that but at least it gets a better AD compared to SS. Plus CV costing a plenty too.
    BB C24 A8 .66 80% D8 .66 80%

    D12 dice
    Inf C3 A2 2.67 16% D4 5.33 33%
    or
    Inf C3 A2 2.67 16% D3 4.00 25%
    Tank C5 A6 2.88 50% D6 2.88 50%
    Fig C12 A6 .50 50% D6 .50 50%
    Bomb C15 A8 .43 66% D3 .16 25%

    BB C24 A9 .75 75% D9 .75 75%
    SS C8 A5 .94 42% D3 .56 25%
    CV C18 A2 .07 16% D6 .22 50%
    TR C8 A0 .00 0% D2 .38 16%


  • Can you lay out the formula for how you’re generating the decimal numbers, for me? I keep staring at it and trying to figure out how to get those numbers out of the cost/att/def values and I can’t make heads or tails of it.

    FWIW I do agree with your suggestion of testing infantry @ A1/D3 and A2/D3 as well as tanks @ A5/D5

    Honestly, I think the starting point (as weird as it sounds) would be to run the game with just using d10 for infantry defense, and keep everything else using d6 with their default values. If you can test that and it seems to have some meaningful impact on the IPM, then you can go from there; if not, then you need to look at whether to go completely to d10, including adjusting infantry attack down to 1, and bumping things like tanks upwards.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    Well just use the d10 for inf and see how it works out. Let us know what results you get.


  • I think I wrote this in the other thread (where I first posted on this topic) but I wanted to reiterate it here, just for posterity:

    With the values I had originally suggested, you can kinda use the 4-column setup of the Classic battleboard, and just paste over the number values (assuming the ergonomics of face-to-face play are of any consideration.)

    Attack 1: inf, CV
    Attack 4: ftr, sub
    Attack 5: arm
    Attack 7: bmb, BB

    Defend 1: bmb, trn
    Defend 3: inf, sub
    Defend 4: arm, CV
    Defend 7: ftr, BB

    Taking into account some of @General-6-Stars’s suggestions, if you’re trying to keep that structure intact:

    1. increasing inf/CV to A2: I think if the overall idea is to keep infantry from being too strong, it’d be hard to justify increasing their attack from 1/6 to 2/10.
    2. increasing arm/CV to D5: CV defends at 50% in Classic, but at 1/6 in most other versions (however, those tend to include other ship types for defense.) 3/6 seems ok – but somehow 5/10 seems too high, when 4/10 is an option.
    3. increasing ftr to A5: Should you increase sub to A5? I’m leaning towards keeping both of these at a 4, and have jet power/super submarines increase both attack and defense by 1 (as mentioned in the previous thread.)
    4. increasing BB to A8/D8: should you increase bmb to A8 and ftr to D8, to match? Rolling at 8/10 just seems really strong, overall; 7/10 seems like a more reasonable cap.
    5. increasing trn/bmb to D2: Since transports are such a big part of why the shuck-shuck is so strong, I would kind of lean towards keeping them at a lower defense.

    There’s probably some utility in keeping ftr and arm at the same attack value as each other, moreso than ftr + sub.

    Assuming you don’t increase the BB to 8/8, the suggested revisions would basically result in:

    Attack 2: inf, CV (increase of 1 for both)
    Attack 4: sub
    Attack 5: arm, ftr
    Attack 7: bmb, BB

    Defend 2: bmb, trn (increase of 1 for both)
    Defend 3: inf, sub
    Defend 5: arm, CV (increase of 1 for both)
    Defend 7: ftr, BB

    So, overall this looks like a greater increase for defense than for offense, but since infantry are getting the increase in attack, that’s going to outweigh the increases to other units. This setup looks fine; I think really my initial one is only preferable w/r/t the tech boosts.

    Maybe the solution is to go with 5 attack and 5 defense values, with inf at A1 and trn at D1? This could work, because attacking inf/CV and defending bmb/trn are never gonna be in the same battle (on the same side) together, anyway.

    I’d also kinda lean towards keeping arm/CV at D4; depending on the ratio of inf to arm…
    i.e.
    10 inf + 2 arm:
    20/6 + 4/6 = 24/6 = 4.0
    or
    30/10 + 8/10 = 38/10 = 3.8 (arm w/ D5 would make this 4.0)

    Likewise…
    2 ftr + 1 CV: (a fairly likely combination)
    4/6 + 4/6 + 3/6 = 11/6 = 1.83
    or
    7/10 + 7/10 + 4/10 = 18/10 = 1.80 (CV w/ D5 would make this 1.90)


    So blending everything together, maybe (probably?) we’d come up with something like this:

    Attack 1: inf
    Attack 2: CV
    Attack 4: sub (ssub +1)
    Attack 5: arm, ftr
    Attack 7: bmb, BB

    Defend 1: trn
    Defend 2: bmb
    Defend 3: inf, sub
    Defend 4: arm, CV
    Defend 7: ftr, BB (jets +1)

    I think the first thing to test is whether inf w/ A1 is too wimpy. Then maybe you’d adjust it to A2 and turn ftr down to A4(?) After that, the next thing would be to look at increasing arm/CV to D5.


  • @the-janus said in Classic game using d10 dice:

    Attack 2: inf, CV (increase of 1 for both)
    Attack 4: sub
    Attack 5: arm, ftr
    Attack 7: bmb, BB

    Defend 2: bmb, trn (increase of 1 for both)
    Defend 3: inf, sub
    Defend 5: arm, CV (increase of 1 for both)
    Defend 7: ftr, BB

    Looking at this, I actually have half a mind to just go with 2/4/6/8 for attack and 1/3/5/7 for defense.

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