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Is a bid system necessary for the revised edition?



  • If adding units is irrelevant, then removing them should be also.

    Instead of adding 6-9 IPC’s to the Axis, let’s just delete that many from the Allies…
    Remove 1 ARM, 1 INF from Egypt.

    There.  According to Squire’s argument, it won’t matter because luck will cancel out such a minor change.

    6-9 IPC most certainly changes the odds.



  • Extra units given to a competant player early in the game should make a difference.  How much of a difference I suppose depends on the competition.



  • And to be honest, that is one of the best things about Revised…
    You don’t have to do the huge bid, or the choreographed moves that have been worked out over 20 years and the “one true and only way” to play A&A like you do in Classic.

    Small bid, just to even out the histroical averages over the past few years, but with a variety of placement possibilities (instead of pre-set PE, PAfr, or the rare Pasia, which is an even LARGER bid) and you get a great game, lots of variability, and lots of enjoyment.

    In fact, I point to my current game with Darth… probably one of the top 5-10 Classic players in the world, and THE best I have ever seen; who has transfered his game play to Revised and now is enjoying the game (I think) in ways that it has been years since he was able to enjoy and explore.

    And both of us are having a ball.  Winning an losing is not the point in this one.  We are playing for the pleasure of it.
    with a 7 bid, 10 turns in, the Axis dominates the land, the Allies the Seas and Skies…  and barring catrastophy by one of us, no end in sight…

    And THAT my friends is a BALANCED game 🙂



  • @squirecam:

    Of the top 10, only ONE player has an axis win% under 50. Of the rest, the lowest is 64 % (1 guy). The rest are 70% or higher. Again, some evidence that axis +8 might be too much.

    Look at the stats again, at http://tripleawarclub.org/ladder/standings.php

    Of the top 10 players, 7 of them have a higher winning percentage as the Allies than as the Axis.  Yes, their Axis winning percentage is high, but their Allied winning percentage is even higher.  This implies that at the highest level of play, that a 9 bid to the Axis (which is what all these games used) might be a little too LOW.



  • TY James, I knew someone with more experience with those numbers would ahve the answer 🙂



  • Needing a bid depends on the rules you play by.
    What NA you are using and how many VC you need to have to win.

    Sure bidding makes the game easier for the axis but so do NA’s and so does playing minor victory.
    If you think the axis need an advantage to make it equal you can use one of the options to do so.
    If you like bidding then do so but you might just as easy give someone some NA’s or make it a 8 city game and balance it that way.

    What i have noticed in my games with a RL friend is that the deciding factor of who wins or who loses are always the dice in some key battles. No bid or strategy can beat 6 inf hitting 4 times on attack and your 10 inf hitting 0 times on defence.



  • But time tends to average out those rolls.

    In a short game, sure one dice frack can be the deciding factor.  over 15 turns, both sides tend to get several fracks.



  • Wow, what a thread!

    I must say, I take NCS’s position on this one for several reasons, the most pertinant of them being that

    a) While the Axis certainly CAN win without a bid, when you have players of equal skill and who are equally skilled at playing both Axis AND Allies (not just one or the other side), a bid can certainly make the difference in the early round(s) and many times it’s what happens the first 2 rounds that can help decide the game.

    b) figuring out statistics is something that can only be done over thousands and thousands of games. I mean, you can flip a coin 100 times and get 90 heads. Does that mean the odds of getting tails are skewed? No, because if you were to flip that coin 10,000 times or 100,000 times the odds are it would be very close to 50/50 and 1,000,000 times or more and likely the difference would be so negligible as to allow us to say it was 50/50. While we cannot play 1,000,000 AAR games, I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to suggest that a bid helps even out the game.

    You know, just as many of the issues of AA Classic were worked out in AAR, I think probably in the next iteration (or version) that many of the issues we’ve seen here will be worked out as well. Maybe an extra unit here or another territory there… whatever it takes to balance the game.



  • @ncscswitch:

    But time tends to average out those rolls.

    In a short game, sure one dice frack can be the deciding factor.  over 15 turns, both sides tend to get several fracks.

    Then again if russia scores 0 hits on their 2 attacks firs round and germany hits almost with all their units it will be a verry short game.
    Having western russia intact as germany and without loads of inf in both caucasus and Russia the game is over before america gets to buy stuff.

    Bidding is just 1 way to equalize the fiend if you think it is needed. If axis only wins 40% of the time ( ill take it you researched that ) then the game must be equalized. But you dont need a bid to do that. a few NA’s for the axis or a 8VC game will also equalize the playing field.


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