• Won;t run on my dinosaur…

    But, I am correcting that… order is being placed for the new PC in 2 weeks :-)


  • This is a post regarding the subject matter and a bit of a rant about my latest game…

    In my last game this past weekend, I played Axis and friend played Allies. The game started out as fun with Russia taking both West Russia and Ukraine with no losses. Yes, Russia lost nothing and Germany totally wiped. Undeterred, I played Germany as she should be played: went after British Navy and did a little hit and run on the Eastern Front trying to weaken the forces. Took Karelia but African invasion was a complete and total disaster. By R2 he was so seriously threatening Balkens I had to focus all forces on Europe, and UK was landing in Western Europe every turn (being smacked back but taking a toll nontheless).

    Through all of this, he decided to go heavy US navy. I had a decent pearl on J1 and started pumping troops across the border and made one fatal error… I decided to go after British posessions the Southern route and into Africa in order to take the pressure off Germany instead of going straight at Russia, but did this beacuse I thought Germany could hold out against UK/ USSR only with no American help. Meanwhile, he combined the India fleet in the South Indian Ocean and threatened to raid in right before the US attack with their fleet (approx 1BB, 2AC, 4SS, 4FTR, 1DD).

    The point of the post is that I easily countered it without breaking much of a sweat on the mainland (only pulled 1 fighter away for fleet defence) and crushed him in a battle just off Japan. Because of the Japanese pressure on Russia, he had to start keeping the INF home and so made one last desperation throw at Germany proper before he ran out of INF to support the attack. He won with 1 tank left because my fighters hit 2x in 9 attempts. Had I won that battle, Germany would have rearmed next turn and taken back at least 2 territores which were essentially bereft of Soviet Forces. And Japan would have whopped up on the USA.

    Point of post: I’m sore because I just seem to be unlucky with dice and going all out US Navy against Japan you had better play me with my bad dice rolls  :x


  • He attacked my fleet. I suppose he figured with the subs he could take out several of my main ships as he was rebuilding on the west coast but the subs didn’t hit at the level he wished.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @kyrial:

    He attacked my fleet. I suppose he figured with the subs he could take out several of my main ships as he was rebuilding on the west coast but the subs didn’t hit at the level he wished.

    That’s not what I’m espousing to do with a Strong US/UK fleet in the Pac.  You don’t attack the Jap fleet, you bottle it up and take all their assets away.  Japan can build plenty of defensive points against an American attack, but what do they do when that attack turns into a containment force?  Now they’re down 13 IPCs on islands, and at risk of loosing his 9 IPCs for land territories in Asia now that he cannot build fast enough to counter UK/USA/USSR land forces moving through Souther Asia and bolstering Middle and Northern Asia.

    Heck, once you have Japan locked on it’s island, who cares about him anymore?  Then, if you want too, you can throw a few subs at him a round with disposable income.  You should have plenty iwth the US making 42 starting + 13 islands + 2 Africa + 9 Asia.


  • OK Jen, time to put up or shut up on your great US Pacific move… a move that no one else here has ever been able to pull off with even a third of that level of success.

    ENTER THE TOURNAMENT!


  • I admit I would be very interested in seeing this strategy pulled off.

    Also, remember, if I hadn’t had terrible rolls for Germany I would have beaten off the combined UK/ Russia attack. And when Germany finally fell, it’s ONLY because he hit it three times in a row UK, USA (the ONLY time he hit with US forces) and USSR. I am fully confident that had we played another game, I would have been able to hold him off and recouperated as Germany and he WOULD have lost the game since Japan was just getting warmed up.


  • Your game does sound like one of those oddities… a not likely to ever be repeated situation.

    Another game, same starting point, same general tactics to start, would be key to seeing if the strat that beat you is indeed viable, or if it was just a fluke.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I’d love to try.


  • Please if someone (Jennifer, in this case specifically) is going to try this in a game make sure to let us know somehow so I can track the game in the other forum. I do try to follow that forum as much as possible but sometimes a few days go by and I won’t check it and I don’t want to miss out seeing this live in action!

  • Moderator

    I have another instance when the US can go Pacific.

    The first, I mentioned a game where Germany failed to take Egy on G1.  In that game my opponent went all out Pac with US and was very successful.
    I made mistakes but the failed attempt of Egy left UK/US with options it wouldn’t normally have.

    The second, I think if US gets 3 hits at Pearl on J1, it is possible.  This happened in my game with with Switch.  I didn’t go Pac though.  But I think it is possible looking back.
    I did counter Pearl since he only had 1 bb, 1 ac, 2 ftrs leftover.  I won with my bb left (which seems standard).  But I think you could probably go Pac in this case and be successful.  One, you can bring over the DD (sz 20) and you already have a BB and DD, While Japan has 1 bb, 1 ac, probably 3 trns left.  Now if you know you are doing a Pearl counter, with a buy of 1 ac with 1 ftr and 1 trn, you can have: 1 bb, 1 dd, 1 ac, 2 ftrs, 1 trn all in the Pac by the end of US 1.  I think this is a comparable force to Japan’s, at least defensively.  Now if you have the UK sub/trn nearby they could be added for fodder on a US 2 move in the South Pacific.  I think with the right purchases and moves you could be very successful against Japan.

    Now could Russia and UK slow down Germany???  That’d be the million dollar question and would depend on how rd 1 and 2 played out.

    But as it is, I can think of 2 scenerios where I’d consider a US Pacific strat: 
    1)  Germany had a bad run in Afr on G1 or
    2)  You got 3 hits at Pearl on J1, giving you a possible Pearl counter with pretty good numbers.


  • If USSR buys 4I/3A, and only attacks WR and plays defensive, then they can hold out 5-7 turns with minimal help while you KJF. After that, Japan better be on its knees and the allies ready to help USSR, or its toast.

    Squirecam

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @kyrial:

    Please if someone (Jennifer, in this case specifically) is going to try this in a game make sure to let us know somehow so I can track the game in the other forum. I do try to follow that forum as much as possible but sometimes a few days go by and I won’t check it and I don’t want to miss out seeing this live in action!

    If I do this it’ll be in a game labelled as “AAR US PAC STRAT” ;)  I won’t let it go in the dark.  Come hell or high water, I’m the gal that tries the different tactics!  Sometimes it works (SBR strat on Germany, standard games) sometimes it don’t work (Russia all out against Japan, forfeit West Asia to Germany…)


  • There’s a pretty funny thing you can do if you send a UK fighter to defend Pearl and both it and the carrier lives: double island hopping. On turn 1 the US can take Solomon Islands, then on turn 2 the UK can take New Guinea using the tran from under Australia+ the fighter on the US carrier. The US follows up by taking East Indies on turn 2 and on turn 3 then the UK goes and takes Borneo. This of course assumes that Japan is merely playing defensive with its navy and is not concerned about taking the initiative and attacking you.


  • In a bad counter situation, Japan is only sendeing INF to Asia, and is building Navy from the start… first TRNs to maintain Asia and add defense as well as re-deploying AF from Asia to surviving AC.  Form there you can count on DST’s, SUB’s, extra TRNs to raid remaining INF from islands to re-take lost islands (supported by BB and AC based FIGs).

    Germany is on its own against Russia/UK, and will have to make their gains via Africa (which will be easier with the US engaged in the Pacific).  Without a triple threat against Germany, Germany can consider thigns like a 2nd TRN for the Med, and sailing the Baltic Fleet out to meet the UK fleet.


  • My personal experience is that a US Pac fleet is a bad idea. It is a worse idea if you don’t get any hits at Pearl. It is a less bad idea if Japan ignores Pearl and leaves that FTR and AC and sub that is because the competition isn’t up to snuff or is trying something new for the heck of it. Perhaps it was my executions of the plan. But to me you need a lot of TRNs to effectively take islands and TRNs need cover. And there is a lot of ocean.

    A US Pac Fleet is easily countered even with below the averages dice because all you have to do is kill the US TRNs to make the whole fleet impotent except to go after Japan’s heavily defended TRNs.

    Can the US have Naval superiority in the Pacific? Yes, buy lots of boats.
    Can the US have effective Naval superiority in the Pacific? I don’t think so.


  • I think a British IC in Australia would be very beneficial if America want’s to play in the Pacific.

    If your going KJF, then that’s two ICs that would be needed (India on B1 of course, followed by Aus on B2, depending on Japans move)…but the ability to build a tranny or two to individually take scattered Japanese possessions will prevent Japan from focusing all of his fleet on America.

    That, and it is a tempting prize for Japan, who might move his fleet too far south to counter a land grab on the mainland.

    You could also build fighters there, and simply focus on your five build points in Asia, spending leftover cash on Inf for Britain.

    This would leave Germany pretty wide open, but an occasional American fighter or bomber to Britain can help even things up a little.


  • 10 IPCs of a FTR for 14 IPCs of TRN with 2 INF? If just one INF on the TRN it is still 11 IPCs. If the TRNs are unloaded you don’t need to go after the fleet do you?


  • @frimmel:

    My personal experience is that a US Pac fleet is a bad idea. It is a worse idea if you don’t get any hits at Pearl. It is a less bad idea if Japan ignores Pearl and leaves that FTR and AC and sub that is because the competition isn’t up to snuff or is trying something new for the heck of it. Perhaps it was my executions of the plan. But to me you need a lot of TRNs to effectively take islands and TRNs need cover. And there is a lot of ocean.

    A US Pac Fleet is easily countered even with below the averages dice because all you have to do is kill the US TRNs to make the whole fleet impotent except to go after Japan’s heavily defended TRNs.

    Can the US have Naval superiority in the Pacific? Yes, buy lots of boats.
    Can the US have effective Naval superiority in the Pacific? I don’t think so.

    You can screen/protect the USA fleet from being attacked at solomons. Once there, and joined with a UK fleet, you cant stop them. USA can go to DEI/Phils/Borneo/Japan.

    Squirecam

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Why not subs for fodder and send out 1 BB, 2 TRN, 2 ARM, 2 INF for island taking.  The point of the mainfleet is to bottle up the Jap fleet, not escort transports all day.

    Besides, when they loose islands, they’ll loose air bases to land fighters.


  • @Jennifer:

    Why not subs for fodder and send out 1 BB, 2 TRN, 2 ARM, 2 INF for island taking.  The point of the mainfleet is to bottle up the Jap fleet, not escort transports all day.

    Besides, when they loose islands, they’ll loose air bases to land fighters.

    Because for 2 more IPC, you get a 3/4 fighter that can help on the mainland after the sea battles are over.

    Squirecam

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