The Alignment/Control of Finland

  • We need a judgment from the community in Operation Live and Let Die. Here’s the Situation:
    -USSR is at war with Great Britain and Japan, but is not at war with Germany.
    -USSR has declared war on Finland.
    -Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was declined.

    Who controls or is aligned with Finland?

    Per Table 4-3, it seems apparent it will be an Axis power.
    “Nations Align with the Axis if the Allies or Comintern declare war on them.” Check. The USSR has declared war on Finland.

    “Nations come under Axis Control if they are Attacked by the Allies or USSR but the Attacker (Allies or USSR) is not at war with the Axis.” I argue this provision doesn’t apply because the USSR is at war with Japan, a member of the Axis.

    “Assign [Alignment/Control] to Germany.” Germany doesn’t get to Align Finland since they are not at war with USSR, but some people are arguing that Finland should be Controlled by Germany. I am arguing Finland should Align with Japan. Fighting Irish suggests Finland should Align with Great Britain.

    What say you?

  • @hbg-gw-enthusiast I would go with Axis, but I agree that, considering Cominstern is at war with the Allies, it seems to make a bit more sense for them to revert to Finalnd… Crap now I’m not sure.

  • They align to Germany. Despite Germany not being at war with the USSR, all alignment and controls are assigned to germany (unless you are playing with that one optional rule).

    In Table 4.3, under ‘Assigning alignment and control’ it states that both alignment and control are assigned to germany. Only Siam would be assigned to japan.

    Nowhere does it imply that comentern attacking a neutral would go to the allies.

  • 2023 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17

    I was going to say the same thing as @insaneHoshi. Table 4-3 is pretty clear on this I think under the “Assigning Alignment and Control” section. All nations that become controlled/aligned by the Axis go to Germany, with the one exception being Siam going to Japan.

  • '18 '17 '16

    Finland would be CONTROLLED by Germany until a state of war exists between Germany and Russia. When war is declared between them Finland would ALIGN with Germany. Other than Siam, none of the other minor powers would align to Japan under any circumstances. This is why I never play with the Diplomacy Expansion. Only in an alternate universe would a Scandinavian nation have ever aligned with Japan. Not only would they never do it, the Germans would never have allowed it.

  • 2023 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17

    @generalhandgrenade The rules don’t really touch on this, but it’s been a topic in another thread recently and this question has made me wonder about a related one.

    What happens to Mongolia if/when attacked by the USSR? The rules only discuss Mongolia aligning/being controlled by the Comintern. But if the Comintern attack Mongolia, would Mongolia align/be controlled by the Axis or the Allies? If the Axis, I assume that would be Japan’s sphere of influence?

  • '18 '17 '16

    @chris_henry Table 4.3 on page 22 clearly states who gets controlled and aligned by whom. I don’t know of anything in the rules and reference sheets that contradicts that table in regards to Mongolia.

  • @generalhandgrenade So it remains controlled despite a state of war existing between the USSR and Japan (axis) ?

  • '18 '17 '16

    @insanehoshi Yes. You don’t declare war on the Axis, you declare on individual nations. Think of the Dutch situation before war is declared between Germany and Britain if Japan attacks the Dutch while at peace with the Commonwealth. The rest of the Dutch that Japan hasn’t attacked remain a controlled minor until Japan and the Commonwealth go to war or if Germany and the Dutch go to war while a state of war exists between Germany and the Commonwealth… It’s no different with the other minor powers. Two nations, regardless of whether they are minor or major, don’t align until they are at war with the same major power. Since Mongolia aligns to Germany, they remain controlled until they are both at war with Russia in the example provided. Don’t forget to do the recruitment roll.

  • @chris_henry Mongolia would be German, as per table 4-3 already referenced.

  • @insanehoshi yes the state of war between Japan and USSR has no effect or bearing on the alignment rules and conditions that are stated in table 4-3

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