What if the Soviet Union joined the Axis and Japan joined the Allies (well really Japan erupting into an Imperial Civil War)?


  • @superbattleshipyamato123 Coolio, I was thinking if Soviets+China were the AXIS there would be a Moscow Road NO to provide 6 Ipcs to China much like the OOB Burma road!

  • 2024 2023 '22

    @nolimit

    I think that if you also remove Italy out of the Axis to the Allies, then it will be a very interesting game as the remaining Axis powers, who dominate the continent, try to challenge the world’s first, second, and third largest navies (Royal navy, IJN, and Reiga marina), whilst the Allies have several (not so insignificant) footholds in Asia and Europe (or should I say bootholds?), which the Axis will have to eliminate, and it can be a challenge for Germany to eliminate France, Italy, and the Balkans before reinforcements come in (in the first turn, Italy can move the entire Tobruk stack to the continent).


  • @nolimit

    Great idea! I never thought of that! Looking forward to your rules!


  • @superbattleshipyamato123 Interesting idea but I think it would be too hard on the Axis if All 3 world’s Navies were against them, maybe have Axis Russia stay out the War Until round 4 or until attacked to make it balanced between the two sides…

  • 2024 2023 '22

    @nolimit

    Yes, but it will certainly look hilarious when you add up Allied ships vs Axis ships at setup-don’t forget: the Soviets and Germany aren’t really affected by convoy attacks, so the Allies really only can escort transports-also, I think the Soviets should be able to declare war earlier than round 4, to continue the idea of the Axis having political initiative, if you ignore historical accuracy such as China never being able to join the Axis.


  • @superbattleshipyamato123

    I did the math, here are the results if we add Italy, Japan, France, and Britain’s (including ANZAC) navies up at setup (not including the US) compared to your hypothetical Axis navy (Soviet Union, China, and Germany).

    Battleships: 6 to 1 (in favour of the Allies)

    Cruisers: 12 to 2 (in favour of the Allies)

    Destroyers: 14 to 0 (in favour of the Allies)

    Transports: 11 to 1 (in favour of the Allies)

    Submarines: 3 to 7 (in favour of the Axis)

    Aircraft carriers: 4 to 0 (in favour of the Allies)

    Or:

    Total ships: 46 ships to 11 ships (in favour of the Allies)

    Or:

    Total IPCs worth of ships count: 515 IPCs worth of ships to 93 IPCs (in favour of the Allies)

    Kind of hard to win at sea when you only have a four submarine advantage over your opponent, and are outnumbered 6 to 1 in battleships and cruisers, 14 to 0 in destroyers, 4 to 0 in carriers, and 11 to 1 in transports, and your opponent having more than 5 times as much IPCs in ships as you.

    Adding the US navy at setup brings another one battleship, one aircraft carrier, 3 transports, 3 cruisers, 3 destroyers, two submarines, or 13 ships, or 129 IPCs worth of ships to the Allies.

    It will be fun and interesting to watch the Axis try to achieve parity or superiority.


  • @superbattleshipyamato123 Not doubting your point, however the Axis (Germany, Russia, Italy, China) would have the advantage of being entrenched on the mainland where the Allies have to fight through in order to Win the War- the Axis really don’t have to go overseas to Win!


  • @nolimit

    Exactly, so you will have to update the winning conditions to force the Axis to have to go overseas-perhaps Axis need to take 15 victory cities on the map? Your Axis start with 7, and the most they can get from mainland Eurasia and Africa are an additional 5 victory cities-Operation Sealion, the invasion of the Philippines and the invasion of either North America, Australia, or Japan is needed.


  • @superbattleshipyamato123 Actually The Europe Axis starts with 6 VCs with China having none, i was thinking the AXIS would need a combined total of 10 VCs at the End of a Full Round- Allies would need to capture 2 Capitols while maintaining All their Own, including All of the African continent (excluding Strict Neutrals)!

  • 2024 2023 '22

    @nolimit

    Oops, sorry! My mistake…

    The reason I hoped to do 15 victory cities is that the Axis will have to build up a big navy, instead of just doing an all continental assault, perhaps we can make it a 13 victory cities required win, as that will require at least an Operation Sealion which, without a Japanese navy to worry about, the Americans and British can completely focus on the Atlantic, which will lead to epic naval battles.

    I think you should make so if China has all it’s territories captured, and the Allies control Africa (excluding strict neutrals), that combined, should be a substitute for capturing an Axis capital-it still won’t be an easy fight.

    Another insane idea that I have for you is to have the US join the Axis-how you will balance this is your choice (also, please tell me how many rounds it will take for the Axis to win with only the US with the Axis).


  • @superbattleshipyamato123 I was thinking the AXIS last 3 capturing VCs would be a hard enough fight for them, particularly if Russia has the OOB Rule of entering the War in Round 4 or unless the Allies Dow on them of course- I’m still working on the details, my group are in the current process of another G40 House rules we’ve been working on for almost a year over the YouTube already and so it’ll take a little time before I can devote my Full attention on the reverse sides we’ve been talking about!

  • 2024 2023 '22

    @superbattleshipyamato123

    Here are the ground forces comparison (Italy, Britain, Japan, ANZAC, and France, or Allies to China, Germany and the Soviet Union, or Axis):

    Infantry: 101 to 98 (in favour of the Allies)

    Tanks: 8 to 11 (in favour of the Axis)

    Artillery: 22 to 11 (in favour of the Allies)

    Mechanised infantry: 5 to 6 (in favour of the Axis)

    Anti aircraft artillery: 18 to 12 (in favour of the Allies)

    Total ground units (Allies to Axis): 153 units to 138 units (in favour of the Allies)

    Total IPCs in ground units (Allies to Axis): 545 IPCs to 488 IPCs (in favour of the Allies)

    Adding the US adds another 8 infantry, one tank, three mechanised infantry, two artillery, and four anti aircraft artillery, or 70 IPCs worth of ground units.


  • @superbattleshipyamato123 Actually in my version, Italy still are the Axis…

  • 2024 2023 '22

    @nolimit

    I know, I just want the Allies to the top three navies in the world and have the Axis try to breakout-I just love big naval battles, and this hypothetical Operation Sealion naval battle would be bigger than Leyte gulf, if the top three navies, plus the US, engaged in a battle with Germany and the Soviet Union, who have extensively built up.


  • @nolimit

    Got it!

  • 2024 2023 '22

    @superbattleshipyamato123

    And finally, let’s do air forces (includes aircraft on carriers, and the powers involved are the same earlier posts)

    Fighters: 26 to 9 (in favour of the Allies)

    Tactical bombers: 8 to 7 (in favour of the Allies)

    Strategic bombers: 4 to 2 (in favour of the Allies)

    Total air units (powers involved are the same as above): 38 to 18 (in favour of the Allies)

    Total IPCs of air units (powers involved are the same as above): 396 IPCs to 191 IPCs (in favour of the Allies)

    The US adds an additional 6 fighters, one tactical bomber, and one strategic bomber or 8 more air units, or 83 IPCs worth of air units.

    Perhaps Italy should be part of the Axis after all.


  • @superbattleshipyamato123 That’s for sure!


  • @nolimit

    I’m looking forward to your new rules!


  • @superbattleshipyamato123 I’ll send them here as soon as I finish a rough draft of it!😁

  • 2024 2023 '22

    @nolimit

    This is my crazy changing sides idea for my “bonkers” Axis And Allies game: Axis/“continental bloc”: France, Germany, Soviet Union, and China. Allies/“naval bloc”: ANZAC, UK, Japan, Italy, and US. British units in the territory France will move to the territory United Kingdom, and the vice versa for French units in the territory United Kingdom.

    Ground forces comparison (not including neutral US):

    Infantry: 86 to 95 (in favour of the Axis)

    Tanks: 6 to 13 (in favour of the Axis)

    Artillery: 19 to 13 (in favour of the Allies)

    Mechanised infantry: 4 to 6 (in favour of the Axis)

    Anti aircraft artillery: 17 to 13 (in favour of the Allies)

    Total ground units (Allies to Axis): 132 to 139 (in favour of the Axis)

    Total IPCs worth of ground units: 471 IPCs worth of ground units to 504 IPCs worth of ground units (in favour of the Axis)

    Adding the US adds another 8 infantry, one tank, three mechanised infantry, two artillery, and four anti aircraft artillery, or 70 IPCs worth of ground units.

    Naval forces comparison (not including neutral US):

    Battleships: 6 to 1 (in favour of the Allies)

    Cruisers: 10 to 4 (in favour of the Allies)

    Destroyers: 12 to 2 (in favour of the Allies)

    Transports: 11 to 1 (in favour of the Allies)

    Aircraft carriers: 4 to 1 (in favour of the Allies)

    Submarines: 3 to 7 (in favour of the Axis)

    Total ships: 42 ships to 15 ships (in favour of the Allies)

    Total IPCs worth of ships: 475 IPCs worth of ships to 113 IPCs worth of ships (in favour of the Allies)

    Adding the US navy at setup brings another one battleship, one aircraft carrier, 3 transports, 3 cruisers, 3 destroyers, two submarines, or 13 ships, or 129 IPCs worth of ships to the Allies.

    This looks a little more balanced.

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