Usul513 last edited by
sorry about the smilie above, I meant to say that subs only cost 8
Guest last edited by
It’s true that the other techs can be useful(IT for Russia and Germany, LRA for US), but the power of Heavy BMB trumps them all. A bombing run with 3 BMB will take, on average, 31 IPC away. That means Russia, Germany, UK and maybe even Japan would have 0 to spend, and you could slowly crush them after a one time investment of 45. And the run has the potential to take anywhere from 9-54 IPC, but I’d argue that even 15 IPC a turn is enough. What other tech would allow you to wipe out 5 INF, or 3 ARM, or 2 cheap boats, or a fighter, or a BMB every sibgle turn? (And that’s a BAD roll)None. And I haven’t even mentioned a heavy BMB in battle which statistically hits twice every round. Anyway, the point is that with heavy BMB in the official rules you can utterly destroy the enemie’s offensive and defensive capabilities AND damage their ground forces. Try playing a game where you have no income and see how long you last.
Now doubt that heavy bombers are nigh unstoppable –more so with a healthy economy to ‘bout
With that said, I don’t see very many games where players purposely roll for Heavies. Maybe in the late game when one side as the decisive edge but even then you run the risk of no replacement causalities (each row cost 5, equal to one tank) and a very lower percentage of actually unlocking heavy bombers. So if I have heavy bombers, it’s like having a Straight Flush. You have all but one card of the same suit in ascending order. The question is, do you replace only one card or replace more to increase your chances of receiving a pair. For those who choose to draw only one card and do get that Lucky Card, It may seem unfair to the other player, but you’re not going to ban Straight Flushes are you?
Anyways, Usul513 said that the other tech rolls are great too, and for the most part I agree with him. Here’s my list of tech rolls in ranking order.
- Heavy Bombers (kinda obvious)
- Industrial Technology (an absolute must for any country)
- Rockets (Strategic Bombing comes at a premium, and untargetable runs are twice as good)
- Subs (You now have the best naval units in the game. Question is, are you actually ever going to be able to capitalize on it?)
- Jet Power (A kill development for Germany who starts the game with a large airforce and soon goes defensive afterwards)
- Long Range Aircraft (Great for USA, but otherwise most attacks are contained in the normal 4-6 spaces due to defensive landing)
I’m interested in seeing what order you guys place your weapons development technologies.
I agree with these rankings, but I think if you get Ind Tech early enough in the game (rd1,2 or 3) this can trump Heavy Bombers. It instantly gives economic balance for the Axis (game over if one of the allies gets it) and with early military advantage it surpasses even heavy bombers, where you still have to spend 15 IPC to buy a bomber. I think with 30 IPC, I’d rather buy 15 men than 2 heavy bombers. Any country can use Ind Tech but heavy bombers can only really be used by US and UK maybe Japan, Ger and Rus generally can’t afford to spend 15 IPC on just one unit no matter how good it is.
Note: It is good to see the forums back up. I posted before the site got hacked (that must have sucked) and then I got caught in a Civ III time warp for about 7-8 months. I think the release of Star Wars woke me up.
True. In order to really take advantage of heavy bombers, you need a healthy economy to ‘bout. What use does unlocking heavy bombers for Germany have on round 6 or 8, where they obviously need every IPC to be spent on the defensive? Heavy bombers don’t roll 3 die when on defense, so you are stuck with dead weight as the Allies advance on you through E/W Europe. When this happens, Industrial Technology takes precedent over Heavy Bombing.
Also, I discredit the notion of heavy bombers by rounds 2 or 3. In order to unlock heavy bombers it would require on average 180 IPCs! (36*5). Now lets take a typically economically sound Nation like USA. At 36 IPCs a turn it would still take me 5 turns to theoretically unlock heavy bombers. On turns 2 or 3 the statistics are not simply not for me.
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Your statistics are off, because you are assuming that Heavies are the LAST tech you get. On average, you will get heavies sometime before you have all 5 techs, therefore 36 tech rolls won’t be necessary. Also, there is the chance (and it increases with every tech you get) that you roll a tech you already have and get to re-roll. I don’t feel like doing the official number crunching, but 5 or 6 turns to get heavies is a worst case scenario, probability wise(of course you could never get anything). The real average, if you buy 6 dice a turn (6 dice at 1/6 chance “guarantees” a breakthrough) is closer to 3 or 4 turns, I suspect.
I swear I’ll register
With me, I usually do take the worst-case scenario due to my cautious playing style Even then 180 IPCs are not the worst-case scenario, not unlocking heavy bombers at all would be (which you mentioned). Now unlocking bombers is like strategic bombing. Usually your bomber will not automatically get shot down on the 6th subsequent run – sometimes soon now or later then. I only use the “guarantee” which you stated.
Now lets say I lowered my 180 IPCs to 90 IPCs (which is pretty favorable). Will you still be willing to spend 90 IPCs for heavy bombers? Can you afford to?
It’s not to say that I won’t lock other technologies on the way, but the true gems are heavy bombers and industrial technology. What use will rockets do me if I’m Japan or Super Subs if I am Russia?