What is the best thing to do with strat bombers?

  • Basically, there is two things that could be done with strategic/ heavy strategic bombers, carpet bomb or strategic bomb. What is your insight on what is best? Honestly, I prefer the carpet bombing since it takes combat units right out of play.

  • @david-06

    Carpet Bomb when there is something of value to be lost (ie tanks or above), i feel that it isn’t of much value when at best only a couple of militia will be lost.

    Strat Bomb Major Factories if undefended for pure economic damage, or facilities for tactical use ( A damaged air base cant scramble in subsequent combats, damaged naval facilities cant give an additional movement etc). Take note that repairing a facility takes a whole turn, so it will be out of action even if the opponent repairs it (though a repaired major factory still get a tech roll).

    Damaging railways is also a good idea too since they dont get an AA shot to defend.

  • @insanehoshi That seems reasonable. I didn’t know that repairs only happen at the end of the turn

  • @david-06 they can also noncombat move infantry class units, which can be quite useful to reinforce a weakly defended position.

  • @mark-the-shark
    Strategic bombers can transport airborne infantry in an airborne assault but cannot transport them in noncombat move. That is the job of the air transport.

    “Q: Can Strategic Bombers be used as air transport or only for airborne units?
    A: Only for airborne assault.”

  • @david-06
    Here are may thoughts and a little math:

    Strategic bombing is 2d6. This is a minimum damage of 2 IPP and a max of 12 IPP, with an average of 7 IPP.
    Carpet bombing is 3d16@2. This a only a 50% chance of hitting. And then you can remove anywhere from 2 IPP to 8 or so IPP, depending on what you hit.

    With heavy bombers, it is 3D6, so an average of about 10.5. Carpet bombing is also now 83% odds with 5d12@2

    Strategic bombing is almost always a better choice economically. However there are some considerations:

    • Not all facilities can take up to 12 damage, thus limiting your possible effectiveness.
    • Damage can be repaired quickly, while units must be rebuilt and then move to the front lines.
    • Factories are fixed, and often better defended than land units.
    • Many nations have extra capacity, and thus do not need to repair the damage.
  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    I believe there’s a miss print at the 3d16@2 should be 3d12@2.
    For what its worth
    Stg. Bomber C12 A3d12@2= A .15x3= .45 50%. .50 hit the SBR 2d6 = 2-12 dam
    H Bomber C13 A5d12@2 = A .14x5= .70 83% hit .83 hit SBR 3d6 = 3-18 dam

    To me I feel the Carpet bombing is to weak in game. Should be at least Ave 1 hit.

    This is what we use in my game.
    Stg. Bomber C8 3d12@4 = A .75x3= 2.25 100% 1.0 hit SBR 2d6 +1 = 3-13 dam
    H. Bomber C10 4d12@4 = A .75x4= 3.00 133% 1.3 hit SBR 2d6 +2 = 4-14 dam

    Just showing you how just lowering costs of pieces makes them worth buying too because your bang for buck gets better.
    We have a nice blend of bombing going on in game.

    Don’t know if that’s what you guys pefer or not. Granted Trig made a good point on what is bombed or not. SBR numbers in are game give you just a bit more on reward. I do like the 36 bombers risk reward on SBR but then we feel it demotes SBRing but hey its all about accuracy and risk / reward.
    I may have missed a special rule for 36 game. Let me know.

    I could see this in 36 game.
    Stg. Bomber C10 A3d12@4 A .48x3= 1.44 1.0 hit
    H Bomber C11 A4d12@4 A .40x4= 1.60 1.3 hit

    At least now your H bomber is a bit better for cost compared to other values in 36 based on .75 to .70 and now its 1.44 to 1.60. I try to go this route. Granted most only use odds.

    No intent on saying you need to make changes to the game. Just showing you guys some stats.

  • @trig yes, you are correct I got that backwards, but the ability to transport airborne is a useful one. Though not as useful as actually doing strategic bombing or carpet bombing in my opinion.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17

    I personally like to use them for strategic bombing runs over carpet bombing.

    I definitely get the urge to want to see real time results in casualties amassed from a carpet bombing attack. I like @Trig’s breakdown above too for averages. But I also like @insaneHoshi’s point on it being situational. I could definitely see giving it a try in a territory full of tanks and no infantry!

    But for me I like to try and mix it up to keep my enemy stressed on multiple fronts. I try and look at it as my smaller planes are what are meant for unit casualties, go on and let the fortresses damage facilities as well for an entire morale affect of hitting him on the front lines and the production front.

    I will also utilize mine a lot in conjunction with an operation I plan to enact. So if I want to knock out an airbase so they can’t scramble during an impending assault, or want to weaken nearby factories so they can’t quickly reinforce where my invasion is going to take place. I’ll try and take that into consideration as well.

    But I think ultimately for me it comes down to the odds that were mentioned above. The odds of killing units is not extremely high, while the odds of damaging infrastructure are almost a given!

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    OK I get what they mean by carpet bombing now. But the Medium Bomber should be like A3d12@4 first round only based on they dropped all payloads and did support ground troops.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    How’s this idea. On carpet bombing since your spraying bombs on a 3x4 mile target or smaller areas and have it where you can delegate the damage to 1 or more facilities.
    I’m saying if you attack with 2 Stg. bombers for carpet bombing and do like 12 damage total. Now you can put like 6 damage on IC, 4 Damage on an AB and 2 damage on a naval base or railroad or more on maybe just 2 facilities based on strategy.
    You would have to figure out how many AA gun shots there be or call it out first on what your gonna bomb.

    Just drop the Attack 3@2 and just have SBR on a single target or carpet bomb.

    To me there needs to be more damage based on civilians killed and buildings destroyed not just on a factory.

  • @gen-manstein Maybe for carpet bombing, you can affect the Industry (the IPPs). For example if the IPP value of an given area is 3, then each 12 rolled (for all 3 dice which would equal 3 IPPs total) is -1 IPP produced from that territory in that turn.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    Looking at a couple ideas. One you could have on carpet bombing you roll 1d6 and that’s the damage to territory. Up to 6 damage. You lose income for that to but still build normally if no damage on your factories. Must be fully repaired to receive territory value income.
    And may have instead pick a piece equal to cost to damage. Can play with this too.

    So then how would u do the aa gun defense shot ? Since stg were higher up in air. I can see up to 3 planes per aa gun @2 or maybe @3.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    Chris Henry

    For what it’s worth I’m bringing up a proposal with group for carpet bombing.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17

    So then how would u do the aa gun defense shot ? Since stg were higher up in air. I can see up to 3 planes per aa gun @2 or maybe @3.

    I really like the idea of AA having a worse chance against Strategic bombers! It makes sense. Part of their allure was that they could fly above the range of AA guns, so making AA less lethal against them would be intriguing too!

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    @chris_henry said in What is the best thing to do with strat bombers?:

    So then how would u do the aa gun defense shot ? Since stg were higher up in air. I can see up to 3 planes per aa gun @2 or maybe @3.

    I really like the idea of AA having a worse chance against Strategic bombers! It makes sense. Part of their allure was that they could fly above the range of AA guns, so making AA less lethal against them would be intriguing too!

    I’m going with for carpet bombing and with able to pick 2 facilities including territory value only 1 aa gun will get to shoot for each bomber in our game and for 36 above suggestion 3 planes @2.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17

    @gen-manstein I think that sounds awesome!

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    Chris Henry:

    Ok. Tweaked this some more. Posted in my game thread. Don’t want to jam this one up.

    Oh by the way why not be able to damage a victory city in a way to deny the point or points ?
    Lookin at that too.

  • @gen-manstein B/C that is terror bombing of civilians, considered a war crime. We don’t deal with war crimes in these games. It is just not tasteful.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    What is this romper room ? Just a game. It did happen in war.
    Then some allies leaders should of been executed.

    Your missing the point. Some guys play with victory city’s as separate territories.

  • @gen-manstein War Crimes would hinder VP’s most likely.

  • '20 '16

    @insanehoshi said, “Take note that repairing a facility takes a whole turn, so it will be out of action even if the opponent repairs it (though a repaired major factory still get a tech roll).”

    I disagree with this. I think facilities are repaired in the production phase. I can see where the wording of one sentence may make it seem that it takes a whole turn, but I believe that is only referring to capital ship repair.

    The stated fact that you can repair a major factory, and then roll for tech, that same turn, seems the strongest support of my opinion.

    I’d welcome the opinion of others.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17

    I don’t think talking about bombing cities and what not and “war crimes” is such an off base thing to consider in this game. It’s a WWII simulation/themed game. Terrible things happened, and as @GEN-MANSTEIN pointed out, at what point do you hold all sides accountable for their war crimes in a game like this (yes, the U.S. is guilty of war crimes in WWII as well).

    Cities were bombed, plain and simple. I don’t see a harm in simulating this in game somehow. While I don’t think taking VP’s away would work, I think you could do something where if a city is bombed so much it losses it’s city defense bonus. Maybe an SBR could be expanded to include bombing cities specifically, as opposed to just the facilities within to accomplish this. It would have a lot of potential negative affects for a the player doing the bombing though too. Maybe you make the bombing power pay 2 IPP to the bank or something to show public opinion going against them for doing it.

    Getting really house-ruley for a thread that wasn’t about that though, sorry!

  • @chris_henry
    I understand your point.
    However, I think that putting war crimes in the game, things like terror bombing, unrestricted sub warfare, concentrations camps, etc. is a very risky thing. When one puts such a tactic into that game, you are confirming it as a viable tactic, something we should try to avoid. Sinking ships without warning, or bombing civilians are not things that we want to promote or confirm, even unintentionally.
    My little brother (under 10) plays with me sometimes. I don’t want him think that because we can something in game means we can do it in real life. I find that staying away from such things is the best course. This is a similar reason I don’t use swastika markers in my game. Adding such a feature is easily seen as condoning it.
    I understand that all sides committed crimes. I do not support any such behavior, and hope that someday, it will all cease and the antagonists held accountable. The perpetrator of a crime has no effect on its horror, and no bearing on this situation.
    This is not a simulation. We can have noble leaders in game who do not chose to go down that vicious path.
    Let us not repeat the mistakes of our predecessors.

  • @Chris_Henry Bombing cites would give more cover, as proved in the battle of Stalingrad.
    @Trig Totally agree with you.
    I think carpet bombing cities should damage the IPP output. Also, I think that AA guns and carpet bombing accuracy should double since it happens in a small area.

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