Help! American declaration of war privilege


  • America has the privilege of a special declaration of war at the beginning of their Collect Income phase at the end of turn 3. Generally America always declares war at the earliest point because there is a vested economic interest in doing so, but in this particular instance I chose not to because I could declare war on Germany and Italy to get the NO income and force Japan to decide if the $10/turn from leaving us alone in the Pacific was worth it. Then on turn 5 I declared war on Japan as he had moved his fleets fully into the Indian Ocean and could pressure the Home Islands and Manchuria. However the new player running Japan has argued that I cannot declare war after Turn 3. Per the rules:

    The United States may not declare war on any Axis power unless an Axis power either declares war on it first or captures London or any territory in North America, or Japan makes an unprovoked declaration of war against the UK or ANZAC, after which it may declare war on any or all Axis powers on its following turn. However, if it’s not yet at war by the Collect Income phase of its third turn, the United States may declare war on any or all Axis powers at the beginning of that phase. This is an exception to the rules for declaring war (see “Declaring War,” page 12), which may normally be done only at the beginning of the Combat Move phase.

    His argument is, rules as written, the second sentence does not remove the restriction of the first sentence, it merely provides a specific exception to both the previous sentence and the general rules for Declaring War. Therefore, he argues, the rules state that if the United States does not exercise it’s privilege to declare war on any or all Axis powers at the beginning of it’s Collect Income phase in turn 3 it does not have the ability to pro-actively declare war against the remaining Axis from that point on. He further argues that from a thematic standpoint, isolationist politics being what they were, in the absence of a direct attack on American interests, there would be a narrow window of time in which a pro-active American declaration of war could happen.

    My question is does anybody have a good argument to counter this other than “we’ve always done it this way” because with the rules written as they are I don’t seem to have a leg to stand on, despite the absurdity of the situation.


  • @nishav

    Japan only gets the $10 if they dont declare war against the UK as well. So if they declared war against them USA can declare war at any time after that.

    For this situation to “work” Japan could only ever declare war with China and Russia.

    That being said, the special case is referring to the timing of the declaration. Normally you cant declare after combat ends.

    I dont think it’s intended that USA can never declare war if it doesnt on turn 3. It’s intended that usa can declare war any time after turn 3, but can do so after combat on turn 3 in order to get the immediate bonus income.

    I’m a lawyer and a rules lawyer. But your friends argument doesnt make sense.


  • @squirecam so his argument that the restriction in the fourth sentence remains in effect is invalid?


  • @nishav said in Help! American declaration of war privilege:

    @squirecam so his argument that the restriction in the fourth sentence remains in effect is invalid?

    It’s certainly not intended that no war happens on one entire side of the map until Japan and Germany take London and Moscow.

    I’d say his argument is invalid.

  • 2022 2021 '20

    The US being able to declare war during the Collect Income Phase is an EXCEPTION to the general rule for everyone. It does not override the Declaration of War rule.

    Pacific 1940 2nd Edition Rules
    PAGE 11 (Sidebar) (Bold added by me.)

    Declaring War
    If there are no restrictions currently keeping you from being at war with a power on the other side (see “The Political Situation,” page 8), you may declare war on that power. War must be declared on your turn at the beginning of the Combat Move phase, before any combat movements are made, unless otherwise specified in the political rules. An actual attack is not required. Once a state of war is entered into, all territories and sea zones controlled by or containing units belonging to the power or powers on which you declared war instantly become hostile to your units, and the normal restrictions of moving into or through hostile
    spaces apply, with one exception. During your Combat Move phase in which you entered into a
    state of war, your transports that are already in sea zones that have just become hostile may be loaded in those sea zones (but not in other hostile sea zones). In effect, transports may be loaded in their initial sea zones for amphibious assaults before war is declared, while the sea zone is still friendly.

    Declarations of war are either “provoked” or “unprovoked.” A declaration of war is considered to be provoked either when the declaration is made in reaction to the direct aggression of another power or when a political rule allows the power to declare war due to a specific action being taken by another power. For example, if the United Kingdom declares war on Japan, a subsequent declaration of war by Japan on the United Kingdom (which is technically unnecessary, as the two powers are already at war) would be considered provoked.

    PAGE 9
    UNITED STATES
    The United States begins the game neutral. It may not declare war on Japan unless Japan first declares war on it or makes an unprovoked declaration of war against the United Kingdom or ANZAC. However, if the United States is still not at war with Japan by the Collect Income phase of its third turn, it may declare war on Japan at the beginning of that phase. This is an exception to the rules for declaring war (see “Declaring War,” page 11), which may normally be done only at the beginning of the Combat Move phase.

    PAGE 37
    Political Situation: The United States begins the game at war with no one. In addition to the normal restrictions (see “Powers Not at War with One Another,” page 15), while it’s not at war with Japan, the United States may not move any units into or through China or end the movement of its sea units in sea zones that are adjacent to Japan-controlled territories. While
    not at war with Germany or Italy, the United States may end the movement of its sea units on the Europe map only in sea zones that are adjacent to U.S. territories, with one exception: U.S. warships (not transports) may also conduct long-range patrols into sea zone 102. The United States may not declare war on any Axis power unless an Axis power either declares war on it first or captures London or any territory in North America, or Japan makes an unprovoked declaration of war against the UK or ANZAC, after which it may declare war on any or all Axis powers on its following turn. However, if it’s not yet at war by the Collect Income phase of its third turn, the United States may declare war on any or all Axis powers at the beginning of that phase. This is an exception to the rules for declaring war (see “Declaring War,” page 12), which may normally be done only at the beginning of the Combat Move phase.

    Normally a Power is not allowed to declare war until the Combat Move Phase. The US has a specific exemption from this rule that it can begin to declare war on the Collect Income phase of the 3rd Turn instead of having to wait until the Combat Move Phase of the 4th Turn. Just because the US does not use this exemption does not remove its ability to now declare war on any future turns beyond Turn 3 during the Combat Move Phase. It has met and completed its restrictions by waiting until at least the Collect Phase of the 3rd Turn or responded to an unprovoked attack before declaring war. Now that those restrictions are removed they may declare war.


  • @andrewaagamer thank you Andrew, that is exactly what I needed


  • @andrewaagamer I heard that if Japan attacks the money Islands then the USA is at war with them.
    From what i have read in your post that is not true. I do not see that anywhere in your post. I only see that if Japan attacks U.K./ANZAC. So why did someone tell me that if Japan attack anyone; but China then all of the allies are at war with them?
    Edit: I was told that if Japan attacked anyone other then China, they all can go to war with Japan. So from what your post says Japan can hit Russia, China, and the money Islands without someone being able to go to war with them.


  • @sonjingohan that part is in the United Kingdom political situation paragraph. A Japanese attack on the Dutch East Indies is considered an act of war on the United Kingdom and ANZAC


  • @nishav OK thank you. I can still attack Russia?


  • @sonjingohan said in Help! American declaration of war privilege:

    @nishav OK thank you. I can still attack Russia?

    China and Russia. But if you attack Amur you activate the Mongolians.


  • @squirecam I knew that. Ty. bro…

  • 2022 2021 '20

    You can also attack France and not be at war with the US or UK/ANZAC though Japan does lose their $10 NO with the US.


  • @andrewaagamer Kool ty. bro.

  • 2022 2021 '20

    Technicality: japan can declare war on France, BUT as long as they don’t take FIC, they still get the $10-- assuming still at peace with US

  • 2022 2021 '20

    This happens when UK/ANZAC makes unprovoked war, and Japan needs to overfly FIC

  • 2022 2021 '20

    @surfer said in Help! American declaration of war privilege:

    Technicality: japan can declare war on France, BUT as long as they don’t take FIC, they still get the $10-- assuming still at peace with US

    That is a good point @surfer. In fact you could actually sink the French DD, assuming it came close enough early enough, and still not lose the $10 NO since it only revolves around FIC. Thanks for pointing that out!!!

  • 2022 2021 '20

    @shadowhawk No, it’s not right. Please see @AndrewAAGamer reply above.

  • Official Q&A

    @AndrewAAGamer is correct.


  • @shadowhawk

    Your interpretation is illogical and against the intent of the game. Hence it is invalid.

    Many times people have had to interpret what has been written because someone claims its “confusing” or unclear. So you look at the intent behind the rule and look at it logically. Which is where this claimed example falls apart. Its nonsense.

    Kriegs answer also qualifies as an official answer or errata as you are ever going to get outside of Larry showing up here.

  • '18 '17 '16

    @shadowhawk
    I don’t think you understand, Bud. When Krieghund issues a ruling that is an official ruling and it is final. Regardless of what your opinion is or how you try and spin the rule book, the official ruling has been made. Now it’s time to move on. Argue for the next 10 pages if you have nothing better to do but it will not change the official ruling.

  • 2021 '20 '18 '17

    That sure is a great, new strategy

    Staring intently at US player with no J3 DOW

    “So you’re saying that you’re done with your turn.”

    “Yes.”

    “So the collect income phase of your turn is over, and you’re placing units?..go ahead and place those…”

    “YOU FOOL!!! I’ve won without firing a shot–because now the USA must sit idle turn after turn as the axis destroy the other, weaker allies bwahahahaha”

    The Sneaky Tojo is born


  • @taamvan lol. We decided to let it play out with his disputed reading of the rule just for the hell of it, with the stipulation we would accept no concession and he had to play it out to the bitter end.

    It didn’t end well for him.


  • @nishav said in Help! American declaration of war privilege:

    @taamvan lol. We decided to let it play out with his disputed reading of the rule just for the hell of it, with the stipulation we would accept no concession and he had to play it out to the bitter end.

    It didn’t end well for him.

    Lol


  • @shadowhawk said in Help! American declaration of war privilege:

    @taamvan said in Help! American declaration of war privilege:

    That sure is a great, new strategy

    Staring intently at US player with no J3 DOW

    “So you’re saying that you’re done with your turn.”

    “Yes.”

    “So the collect income phase of your turn is over, and you’re placing units?..go ahead and place those…”

    “YOU FOOL!!! I’ve won without firing a shot–because now the USA must sit idle turn after turn as the axis destroy the other, weaker allies bwahahahaha”

    The Sneaky Tojo is born

    Not really, it also means that Japan can never attack UK or Anzac at all. So japan is basicaly limited to annoying china and russia while anzac and UK-Pac just build up and take over the middle east and assist russia

    Maybe not. If USA cannot attack any territory that has Japan units then japan flies all its fighters to Europe and lands in german or italian territories. USA cant do anything then. Which is why the theory was dumb in the first place.


  • @squirecam Considering an American transport train can hit any of Rio de Oro, Gibraltar, Normandy, the Low Countries, Denmark, and Norway in one turn, that’s 7 fighters/bombers peeled off to sit those territories.

    That strategy would have required Japan to commit multiple planes to sitting on the Atlantic wall, not pressing Russia and not available to defend against a British surprise attack in Asia.

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