Alternative to AA gun fire being modified

@jbuckbuddy said in Alternative to AA gun fire being modified:

It seems(imo) that the modifiers affecting all land units such as in terrain or forts were not quite intended for AA guns. Especially in cases where it’s only modified on the 1st round. Since AA guns only fire on the 1st round with multiple shots, they are more heavily affected. I’ve always considered a units die hit value to be like their accuracy and it’s never sat well with me that terrain or a fortification would increase or decrease how well the AA guns can shoot down aircraft. For all other units in a fort it makes sense that they are more likely to hit attackers in the first round but are then back to their normal value in subsequent rounds. AA guns having all their shots of the battle in the 1st round seem to gain the most from this buff. I would much rather they either have more or less shots at 3 in such cases. Plus they can be devastating to possible attacking planes, essentially making a fort with a few AA guns a no fly zone, esp the maginot, (6 or less if I am correct). Terrain is not as bad since u would have to attack with the AA guns to be affected and makes more sense that they may be less effective. I still would rather get 2 shots at 3 in this case than 3 at a reduced value of 2.

Not sure if anyone else feels the same way about this, I wanted to try and come up with a possible house alternative that would apply specifically to AA guns, probably including them only ever hitting on a 3, but getting 2 or 4 possible shots in certain cases where units are affected. Any other ideas?

Well we use the aa gun as a defending piece ( bunker/pillbox/fort ) after first round of combat.
d12 system
AA gun gets a shot at every plane @2 before combat starts. Remove casualties. Then on 2nd round of combat and later they D@4.

Now I think in your case 1 aa gun gets only 1 shot up to 3 planes each. @3 ?
This would make your aa gun weaker than what we use. We can always change it but works good for now.
This piece works great on all the small islands in pacific for jap bunkers, if no bunker pieces in games and Mediterranean island defense.
Some times u may choose an inf instead of aa gun for a casualty.
Also when u buy the aa gun u get a better deal for cost.
Not a fan of a attacking aa gun since you need to move it in combat in which it takes time to set up guns but not my rule.
Just an idea

AA guns aren’t affected by terrain modifiers as far as I can tell (well not their 3 shots @ 3). Are you saying they should be?

@jbuckbuddy said in Alternative to AA gun fire being modified:

@GEN-MANSTEIN Thanks, yeah that does sound interesting actually. So 1 AA gun defending would get a shot at every plane prior to combat at 2 and then every round after the 1st they roll 1 die at 4 ?

Do u guys ever modify their hit values in certain cases such as being in a zone with a fort or a surrounded city?

Yes to your 1st question.

No to your 2nd question.

@jbuckbuddy said in Alternative to AA gun fire being modified:

@insanehoshi all attacking land units get minus 1 in terrain (not marsh/jungle), so if AA guns were attacking wouldn’t they be affected?

This I would agree with.

@gen-manstein Sorry if going off course her a bit, just wanted to respond to the General

“…Not a fan of a attacking aa gun since you need to move it in combat in which it takes time to set up guns…”

Yea I have em at attack 0 for regular combat, but they can take over empty territories that way. Their AA ability doesn’t work in attack mode.

@barnee said in Alternative to AA gun fire being modified:

@gen-manstein Sorry if going off course her a bit, just wanted to respond to the General

“…Not a fan of a attacking aa gun since you need to move it in combat in which it takes time to set up guns…”

Yea I have em at attack 0 for regular combat, but they can take over empty territories that way. Their AA ability doesn’t work in attack mode.

YA
I forgot to mention you still control and defend the territory with a lone AA gun in it. If it blocks blitzing or used as a Partisan, then it should control it.
As far as activating a pro neutral that is your call.

@jbuckbuddy said in Alternative to AA gun fire being modified:

so if AA guns were attacking wouldn’t they be affected?

Because when shooting planes, the AA gun doesn’t explicitly shoot at its attack/defence value.

The rule for an AA Gun is “An attacking or defending AA Artillery rolls one die for each opposing aircraft up to a maximum of three rolls and hits on a roll of “3” or less.” Note that here it doesn’t say “Gets three attacks” or " rolls at its attack value"; Its AA shots are explicitly at 3.

This means that its attack and defence value is completely incidental from its special AA ability.

Whether this is the correct interpretation of the designers intentions is up in the air, but RAW AA guns’ aa shots are not affected by terrain. However their attack and defence values would still be affected, so if there were no aircraft and they were going into mountains, they would get one shot @ 2.

@insanehoshi said in Alternative to AA gun fire being modified:

@jbuckbuddy said in Alternative to AA gun fire being modified:

so if AA guns were attacking wouldn’t they be affected?

Because when shooting planes, the AA gun doesn’t explicitly shoot at its attack/defence value.

The rule for an AA Gun is “An attacking or defending AA Artillery rolls one die for each opposing aircraft up to a maximum of three rolls and hits on a roll of “3” or less.” Note that here it doesn’t say “Gets three attacks” or " rolls at its attack value"; Its AA shots are explicitly at 3.

This means that its attack and defence value is completely incidental from its special AA ability.

Whether this is the correct interpretation of the designers intentions is up in the air, but RAW AA guns’ aa shots are not affected by terrain. However their attack and defence values would still be affected, so if there were no aircraft and they were going into mountains, they would get one shot @ 2.

Persuasive argument, Insane Hoshi! I agree this would mean AA Artillery is not affected by terrain, cities, fortifications, etc. However, you go on to say that AA Art’s attack and defense values “would still be affected.” If you read further in the description you quote, it says, “AA Artillery fire on the first round of combat only.”

My understanding is that AA Art fires specifically at aircraft.
They only fire on the first round of combat.
They get one die roll for each opposing aircraft up to a max of 3.
They hit on a “3” or less and aren’t affected by modifiers.
They do not get to roll against other units.