• Can you Kamikaze subs?

    On Japan’s NRS- "Beginning as soon as USA reaches Wartime Income, Japan may make up to 2 kamikaze Attacks per Calendar turn to a game total of 6. These are made at an Attack of 7 with target selection vs. surface ships of “1-2” and have First Strike. No fighter is required or expended for these Attacks. Kamikaze Attacks may be made from Home Country and have a range of 4. Kamikazes may also be used when Japan is the Defender in a sea zone adjacent to Japan or Okinawa or during the Shore Bombardment phase of an amphibious assault."

    To me the most important part is this-
    “These are made at an Attack of 7 with target selection vs. surface ships of “1-2” and have First Strike.”
    This seems to say that it is an “attack” with no restrictions on what they hit, but they have a TS aginst surface ships. They only restriction I see is that when used in defense, they must be used adjacent to Japan or Okinawa. This means that you could Kamikaze subs, land units, or even planes. (at least when attacking)
    Is this correct? Compare with G40-
    "The Japanese player has the ability to make a special defensive strike against Allied surface warships. Japan is allowed to make 6 kamikaze strikes during the game. These strikes can be made only in sea zones that contain the Kamikaze symbol: those surrounding Japan, Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Formosa, Marianas, and Philippines. If an Allied player attacks Japanese units in or declares an amphibious assault from one of these sea zones, the Japanese player can announce at the beginning of this phase that he or she intends to launch one or more kamikaze strikes in that sea zone. They are resolved before any combat begins.
    The Japanese player must declare how many kamikaze strikes will be made, in which sea zone(s) they will be used, and which enemy ship will be struck by each kamikaze before any dice are rolled. For each declared strike, 1 Kamikaze token must be spent (no actual air unit is involved) and will be removed from the game after the strike is resolved. A kamikaze strike can target any specific enemy surface warship (not a submarine or transport) belonging to the attacking power. More than one kamikaze strike can be made against the same ship. Kamikaze strikes hit on an attack roll of 2 or less. If a hit is scored, it must be applied to the chosen unit. Surface warships that are destroyed by a kamikaze strike (capital ships still take 2 hits) are immediately removed and will not participate in the subsequent battle. A kamikaze strike prevents offshore bombardment supporting an amphibious assault in that sea zone, whether or not the strike is successful (place the used Kamikaze token in the sea zone until you resolve the amphibious assault to remind you that the ships may not bombard).

    A bit wordy, but it specifically mentions surface warships.

    So what is it? Can you hit anything with a Kamikaze? That is what it seems to say, but that seems contradictory with history.

    -Trig


  • The rules seem clear : « surface ships » only.

    No subs or land units or mid-air collisions with other aircraft…

    How would a plane even hit a submerged submarine? It was difficult enough hitting huge battleships or carriers.


  • @noneshallpass
    But it is not.
    Examine the wording-
    “These are made at an Attack of 7 with target selection vs. surface ships of “1-2” and have First Strike.”
    The prepositional phrase “versus surface ships” is nestled between the phrase “with target selection” and " of 1 to 2." Those obviously go together, so by basic English sentence structure, the first phrase modifies “target selection.”
    There is no reference to surface ships in the rest of the section.
    In 0.1 (page 2) it says that any game-specific terms are capitalized. “Attack” is capitalized. Thus we use the definition of “Attack” found in 0.9. This just says that attack refers to the player taking a turn and their actions.

    Therefore, one may conclude that there is no restrictions on the “attack” the Kamikaze may make, only the standard rules of combat movement.


  • Target selection is a strong advantage for the Attacker and is an exception to the rule that the Defender selects his own casualties (Rule 9.1).

    When you attack with Kamikaze and roll :

    8-12 : you miss
    3-7 : you hit but defender chooses the casualty
    1-2 : you hit and you choose the casualty

    I cannot fathom that if you hit 1-2, then you are limited to surface ships, but if you hit 3-7, the defender can pick anything else as casualty.

    It makes much more sense that the rules are coherent and that Kamikaze can only hit suface ships, no matter who chooses the casualty.

    If you happen to hit a 1-2, you will probably go for the carriers or loaded transports, and at 3-7 the defender will pick destroyers or light cruisers. If I was playing with your interpretation, I would be very happy to pick a submarine instead.

    In addition, while I am not a big fan of historical explanations to the rules, we cannot ignore that the Kamikaze were “part of the Japanese Special Attack Units of military aviators who flew suicide attacks for the Empire of Japan against Allied naval vessels in the closing stages of the Pacific campaign of World War II, intending to destroy warships more effectively than with conventional air attacks”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze


  • @noneshallpass
    All correct, but the rules as written say nothing to limit it. I believe that historically it makes no sense, however, that is the way it is. Until we get an FAQ or Eratta, the Kamikazes can hit anything.

    (PS- Your reasoning is sound, but it fails on the assumption that the rules are reasonable and can be interpreted historically. You are arguing the wrong point, as I belive you have no counter argument with strength the assertion that, according to the RAW, Kamikaze have no limitations. Please stop throwing red herrings.)

  • '20 '16

    Until there is official word, we go off the official word we have repeatedly been given about common sense and historicity, when the rules aren’t clear. Both would exclude subs from being kamikaze targets.


  • All, HBG has updated the FAQ:
    Q: Can you attack Submarines with Kamikaze?

    A: No. Kamikaze can only ever attack surface ships. This also means that the Defender can not choose a Submarine as casualty.

    That is good, though I suggest that it be changed in errata to say
    “These are made at an Attack of 7 aginst surface ships with target selection vs. surface ships of “1-2” and have First Strike.”


  • The rules were clear enough to start with and the FAQ is overkill.

    There is no need for further clarification.


  • @noneshallpass
    Not really, again, there is in the RAW (ignoring the FAQ) NO, I repeat, NO limitations to Kamikazes. Did you read it? Don’t assume thing from A&A. This is a different game and some “obvious” things have changed.

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