AARHE: Phase 2: Naval Combat

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    ok at least its streamlined.

    Since battleships can be targeted or hit by other battleships first. I guess it would be alright to allow their preemptive shot to stay even if damaged. ill go with that.


  • hehe you forgot again
    we already got rid of the class system

    hits don’t have to be allocated according to class

    but, hits are allocated on damaged units

    so is it still ok for damaged battleships to fire preemptively?

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    yes it is.


  • I could use a little clarification on the wolf packs.  Do submarines get the Wolf Pack bonus if there is only 1 or does this bonus require a minimum of 2 subs in the zone?

    It seems to be a very powerful advantage.  Maybe too powerful.  With Super Subs tech they become as powerful as BB.

    In my first attempt at Naval Combat yesterday, an undetected SS selectively hit (with Wolf Pack bonus) my BB causing it to be damaged and list.  I hadn’t read this forum yet so was operating on “damaged BB don’t get to fire in Mid-Combat”, so the enemy BB sunk my BB using “Whenever possible hits are allocated on damaged units first.”.

    So I lost a BB without ever firing a shot which was rather painful.

    I was a little dumbstruck, and couldn’t come up with a viable defense against marauding “Wolf Packs”.

    Any insights or thoughts appreciated.

    • Bierwagen
  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    You need two subs to get the bonus bringing the attack at 3.

    You need to buy ASW units to protect the BB or its a gonner

    You need to develop ASW tech and all related techs, so subs can be hunted down by planes and the search roll to locate goes up.

    When you have nothing and no defense the Germans have what they called the “happy time” of the kreigmarine. The rules are
    deliberately written where everything becomes a defense, counter defense , counter counter defense, etc…

    So don’t let your BB float alone in the water w/o destroyer escort. Everytime they build a sub you need to worry about making a destroyer… this is the give and go of the possible German strategy that they can develop… which will deny UK from building transports because they have not established a proper navy by allocating purchases to land units. UK is a naval power and to defeat the U-boats you need lots of ASW.


  • you need no. of submarines to exceed no. of destroyer(+crusier) by more than one to get wolf pack

    so yeah you need minimum of two submarines to get wolf pack bonus

    no lone wolf packs hehe

    the more submarines Germany buys the more destroyers UK needs to buy
    though destroyers are cheaper in AARHE at $10
    this reliance be reduced by getting ASW tech

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Oh yea thats right!..

    good call.


  • Is Naval Combat like Land Combat in that FTRs must retreat if there are no naval units left at the end of a combat round?

    I think this is answered by “At the end combat cycle air units that cannot land on aircraft carrier [ on page 6] or excess to Aircraft Carrier capacity must retreat.” but it seems odd.

    e.g., my American FTRs in Hawaii (n.b., willing to brave the withering Japanese naval AA guns) scramble to engage Japanese air in the surrounding sea zone, but only get one round of combat before they have to retreat to Hawaii?

    Same with Hawaiian DAS that scrambled to support the fleet under attack.  One cycle of combat and they have to land?  I’m having a hard time with this one – I tried to justify by saying o.k. you have to land on CV to refuel for the next cycle of combat, however we don’t make that distinction in Land Combat.

    I saw some earlier discussions on this.  It sounds great on paper, but once I started rolling dice and lost a nice navy while aircraft just sat in Hawaii, I didn’t understand it anymore.

    Any insights appreciated.

    Enjoy the day!

    • Bierwagen
  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Is Naval Combat like Land Combat in that FTRs must retreat if there are no naval units left at the end of a combat round?

    Yes correct. Planes fly back to carriers as the carriers retire from battle.

    I think this is answered by “At the end combat cycle air units that cannot land on aircraft carrier [ on page 6] or excess to Aircraft Carrier capacity must retreat.” but it seems odd.

    In the event that your carriers are allocated as hits, and you have a situation where you have more planes then carriers to land on them, your required to retreat excess planes, because it now becomes a question of a quasi- kamakazi run, because the planes have no place to land.

    e.g., my American FTRs in Hawaii (n.b., willing to brave the withering Japanese naval AA guns) scramble to engage Japanese air in the surrounding sea zone, but only get one round of combat before they have to retreat to Hawaii?

    If its just air vs air and no naval below, then yes its one round. Remember the air combat is always aerial combat values.

    Same with Hawaiian DAS that scrambled to support the fleet under attack.  One cycle of combat and they have to land?  I’m having a hard time with this one – I tried to justify by saying o.k. you have to land on CV to refuel for the next cycle of combat, however we don’t make that distinction in Land Combat.

    This is different: AS long as you have naval combat you can perform concurrent air combat rounds over the sky, eventually air superiority will occur and you get to attack ships until they retreat or are destroyed. So this may be multi round affair.

    I saw some earlier discussions on this.  It sounds great on paper, but once I started rolling dice and lost a nice navy while aircraft just sat in Hawaii, I didn’t understand it anymore.

    Huh? why didnt the carrier just retreat? If the enemy bring in a fleet and has no air cover, he will be chewed up if the other side has air cover. Thats the way its supposed to be. Perhaps im not getting what happened. Provide an example.


  • @Bierwagen:

    I’m having a hard time with this one – I tried to justify by saying o.k. you have to land on CV to refuel for the next cycle of combat, however we don’t make that distinction in Land Combat.

    Yes that was the reasoning. Refuel and rearm.
    Actually we have that reasoning in land combat too, you just don’t have the capacity limit thats all.
    (For the land combat case you asked a question in another thread.)
    Its a bit easier on ground because you use captured air fields or make-shift runways.

    Same with Hawaiian DAS that scrambled to support the fleet under attack.  One cycle of combat and they have to land?

    Yes if you have no carriers left (or no carriers to start with) the fighter will have to retreat.

    The idea is that air units without carriers to land can only fight on a limited basis in the sea. Hence we make them retreat at end of cycle.

    Flying back and thru between the enemy fleet and the airfield at the lsand is no where as effective as having a mobile airfield that hunts the enemy.

    But I see your concern. It would make no difference if the action is very close to the island coast anyway, eg. defending an amphibious assault.

    @Imperious:

    This is different: AS long as you have naval combat you can perform concurrent air combat rounds over the sky, eventually air superiority will occur and you get to attack ships until they retreat or are destroyed. So this may be multi round affair.

    Note the retreat rule applies regardless.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Thanks tekkyy!… this new guy is a good fortune for us because hes looking outside the box and providing feedback from another point of view. Lets take good care of him. Note my answers may not always be perfectly correct to his questions.


  • Bierwagen is among the most constructive users.

    • karma to him

    We shall be able to resolve a few grey areas with him and add him to the contributors list.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    yes right.


  • Sweet!

    Thanks for the Karma – it’s been a hell week, so I haven’t had much time to sit in front of the computer.

    Really appreciate all the feedback on my questions.  Our monthly gaming session is slated for Saturday and so far only 4/10 of us are on board to try AARHE Lite.  The others are still trying to master regular AAR and are hesitant.  Lite just seems to liven the whole game up by involving everyone constantly and I was hoping to convert/subvert them before they got AAR ingrained on their brains.

    I also stumbled on “The War Game” this week and had to immediately order a set for myself and another for the break room at work.  The pieces alone are phenomenal!

    I was wondering if you tried any of the AARHE concepts with that game as well.  It doesn’t seem like anything in AARHE throws the games out of balance, rather it is more of a different approach to combat processes.

    Anyway, keep you posted as it develops.

    Thanks again for the insights and the fun.  AARHE has been all the rage at work trying to convince everyone to give it a go.

    Enjoy the day!

    • Bierwagen
  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I worked on the map for The War Game but it was minor. I know jeff personally for many years and have played it yada, yada, yada.

    You can use the pieces for AARHE. I do.


  • yeah should get them to know AAR trying LITE

    depending on the crowd, some would be quick to see the shortcoming quick of LHTR/OOB
    such as the long waits between turns, could be 45 minutes
    and bits and pieces of outright unrealistic rules

    though some would be reluntant even to use LHTR
    if thats the case give anyone of this forum a yell
    they’ll quickly give you an idea of how serious the mistakes/typos of OOB are

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    no we don’t need LHTR, because they uses different victory conditions and has different takes because its tailored for Tournament games. Our rules superseed LHTR EXCEPT for issues that we don’t clarify, that document overrides.

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