ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @AndrewAAGamer said in ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC:

    ANZAC or UK may land planes on any Dutch territory. However that does not take control of the territory for the Power that landed planes there. A land unit, not AA, is required to take control of a Dutch territory.


  • Well actually the rules dont specify that you can land air units there. These are the only 4 neutral pro-allied islands on the map so the wording is weird.

    But they are technically not owned by anzac or UK. So following the general rules you can only land planes on land that was owned at the beginning of your turn. There is no provision that contradicts this rule, the rules posted only state that they are pro-uk, anzac and that the anzac can take control of them without declaring war.

    So we got 1 rule explicitly stating that you can only land air on terretories that you owned at the start of your turn ( or friendly AC’s ). Yet people thing this rule isnt valid in this case because?

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @ShadowHAwk said in ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC:

    Well actually the rules dont specify that you can land air units there. These are the only 4 neutral pro-allied islands on the map so the wording is weird.

    But they are technically not owned by anzac or UK. So following the general rules you can only land planes on land that was owned at the beginning of your turn. There is no provision that contradicts this rule, the rules posted only state that they are pro-uk, anzac and that the anzac can take control of them without declaring war.

    So we got 1 rule explicitly stating that you can only land air on terretories that you owned at the start of your turn ( or friendly AC’s ). Yet people thing this rule isnt valid in this case because?

    HA haha yes this is true. I always wondered why you could land planes on a pro neutral but not activated or controlled by you. It should be one way or the other and the other gets it.
    I have to agree with a AA gun can take control on a Pro-Neutral. There’s a threat of you being attacked by Japan and as an allie I will give you ground gun support and you compensate me ( receive territory value Icps ) by paying for it and for added protection.
    Yes and no planes can land there until you control it. “But of Course”

    Maybe landing planes is like you see in other wars and countries that are not at war but you are and they let you use there airbases for your planes based on a pro allie.

  • 2020

    @ShadowHAwk said in ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC:

    Well actually the rules dont specify that you can land air units there. These are the only 4 neutral pro-allied islands on the map so the wording is weird.

    The rules address this. Pg 9 ->
    These two powers also have an arrangement with the Dutch government in exile (Holland having been captured by Germany) and have taken guardianship of the Dutch territories in the Pacific. As a result, they are free to move units into these territories as a noncombat movement at any time, as long as they have not yet been captured by Japan. They may actually take control of them (gaining their IPC income) by moving land units into them.

    “units” means any units, including air units. “land units” means any land unit, later clarified to mean any land unit excluding AAA.
    The Netherlands is not neutral. Calling the DEI pro-Allied neutrals is incorrect and can confuse other players.

    Wouldn’t you agree that UK1 I can land fighters onto French Normandy? It’s not magically neutral after Paris falls.

    Netherlands

    • capital is occupied

    • cannot be liberated(is not a Power)

    • is Allied, not neutral

    • special relationship with ANZAC UK that allows those two Powers to take ownership of territory in NCM that hasn’t been conquered by Axis

    France

    • Capital occupied(for most of game)

    • can be liberated(is a Power)

    • is Allied, not neutral

    • Allied units can not take ownership of French territory in NCM that france has retained from Axis; it stays blue


  • That rule allows them to move units into those areas without being at war with japan.
    These zones are neutral as they are not part of the allies, and at the start of the game the pacific board starts basicaly neutral. At the start of the game Netherlands is still neutral like the rest of the allies towards japan ( china being the only exception )

    Also it states that the UK or Anzac need to take ownership of the country, so this implies they do not have ownership.
    If this rule didnt exists then the UK and Anzac would not even be able to take control before being @war with japan as they are neutral powers and cannot take control of neutral contries.

    Also these are the only allied neutral countries on the board. So the pacific rules would not specify rules for neutrals as they are not part of that game.

    Rules for air state you have or your allies ( dutch is neutral ) have to have ownership before you can land planes there.
    Also moving units into any zone does not mean landing, planes can move into enemy zones and even sea zones but it does not mean they can actualy land there. You are completely allowed to move your air into java and then move out again to land. Planes can move into any zone, but can only land in zones you or your allies owned at the start of your turn.

    It does not invalidate the air movement rules nor is it stated that they do not apply to these areas.

    Neutrals are contries not belonging to 1 of the sides at the start of the game. DEI do not belong to any side at the start of the game.

  • 2020

    DEI is not neutral. If it was a pro-allies neutral it would look like Eastern Persia. There’s special rules for Mongolia but it is neutral, not Allied.

    DEI has its own roundel because Netherlands is Allied. If they wanted it to be a neutral, they would have the vertical/diagonal lines running thru the DEI and say “-neutral”.
    Is French Indo-China a pro-Allies “neutral”? By your logic, it must be. But it just isn’t.
    Yes, Japan is only at war with China. Inevitably, Japan will be at war with US UK ANZAC. So while neutrality exists, the two factions also exist from the beginning and inevitably clash.

    All I’m saying is that it is fine if you want to disagree with the rules and play how you want. I’m just asking that you and others don’t obstinately spread misinformation when faced with the actual rules.

  • 2020

    Pg 9

    “The only neutral territories in the game are those that make up Mongolia.”

    Please start including sources for your claims otherwise it comes off as bad faith arguments.

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 '12 Official Q&A Moderator TripleA

    Of course the DEI territories are not neutral. The status of the Dutch territories is clearly defined in the Pacific rulebook, page 9:

    Dutch Territories
    The Dutch territories begin the game uncontrolled by
    any power. However, they are considered friendly to the
    Allied powers. Holland has been captured by Germany, so
    Dutch territories are treated in the same way as any Allied
    territories whose capital is held by an enemy power
    (see
    “Liberating a Territory,” page 20), with the exception of the
    guardianship of United Kingdom and ANZAC (see “United
    Kingdom and ANZAC”, above).”

    The fact that a territory currently is uncontrolled does not make it neutral.

  • '18 '16

    @AndrewAAGamer
    why don’t you log on to TripleA and lets play a live game some time. You sound like you need to be taken down a peg or two.

  • '18 '16

    GEN Manstein appears to be on the same level we are about lending you arms.

    I do agree fighters can’t land in newly acquired neutrals due to the fact that existing airbases are probably not up the to standard for anything other than bush planes.

    @AndrewAAGamer using that imagination of mine again.

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16

    @seancb said in ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC:

    I do agree fighters can’t land in newly acquired neutrals due to the fact that existing airbases are probably not up the to standard for anything other than bush planes.

    I sincerely doubt that factored into the rule – if the rules were based on realism and historical accuracy, Scapa Floe would be a naval base on the board…

    Marsh

  • '18 '16

    @Marshmallow-of-War
    Imagination man, imagination man!!!
    Try to come up with some sort of explanation for it.

  • '18 '16

    If you want realism play World in Flames but Jesus I played a whole game once and it took a year!!!


  • @Marshmallow-of-War said in ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC:

    @seancb said in ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC:

    I do agree fighters can’t land in newly acquired neutrals due to the fact that existing airbases are probably not up the to standard for anything other than bush planes.

    I sincerely doubt that factored into the rule – if the rules were based on realism and historical accuracy, Scapa Floe would be a naval base on the board…

    Marsh

    Well most airbases where not much more then grass fields of if that didnt work metal stips.
    Planes of that time didnt require much more then a flat firm strip of land devoid of trees. Ofcourse this does not factor in fueling/maintenance that you need facilities for but just takeoff and landing didnt have the requirements our planes have today.

    That was 1 of the advantaged of the RAF during WW2, their airbases where hard to destroy because well if you cant take off from 1 field you just take of from the 1 next to it.

    But yea realism didnt get factored into the game, you should see it as a game with historical context. Which is good otherwise it would most likely not a fun game to play.

  • '18

    @seancb you played Jesus? how’d he fare?

  • '18 '16

    @Aaron_the_Warmonger
    once again the lack of a comma in a sentence causes havoc!!!
    Did you eat people?
    or
    Did you eat, people?

  • '18 '16

    @Aaron_the_Warmonger
    for the record he did win, because it wouldn’t be very nice to beat Jesus, would it?
    I told him he had to roll the dice fair and square but i could tell a few of them were “breathed upon”!!!

  • '18

    @seancb o man, i’m dyin’… 😄 need to watch that jesus!

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16

    “Let’s eat Grandma”

    “Let’s eat, Grandma”

    COMMAS SAVE LIVES.

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