American Peacetime Income Increase

  • Hey y’all,

    I’m back with another question. On American Peacetime Income Increases when it states:

    “Japan places a new Battleship or Carrier of any type on the map or on the Production Chart +1 (each time)”.

    The wording has me believe that Japan can finish the Fleet Carrier it has on position 3 without provoking an American Income Increase. This is because the Fleet Carrier on the Production Chart is not new. However, would It be considered new when it is placed on the map? And if so, would placing a Battleship or Carrier from the Production Chart to the map provoke America to go up +2 income?

    I just want to make certain that I am interpreting the rule correctly.

    Thanks for any help!


  • '18 '17 '16

    The Americans would get the increase for that Battleship. In V-2 the strategy was to build your capital ships until stage 2 because the rule was only “place on the map”. It was changed to map or production chart just so the Japanese couldn’t game it with a technicality. Note that it says “OR”. That means that you wouldn’t get the increase for placing on the production chart AND another increase when you place on the map. Each ship is only one point regardless of where you place it. In V-2 you would’ve gave up the increase for the starting Battleship when it hit the map and in V-3 that didn’t change.

  • I have another America Peacetime Income Increase quesion:

    Say Germany attacks Netherlands and then Japan attacks the Dutch colonies in the same turn. Would US get the +2d12 increase for Japan attacking a neutral(dutch)? Or would the US get the +5d12 increase for japan attacking the British since the Dutch colonies would align to Great Britain once the Netherlands were attacked by Germany? My gut tells me it’s the +5d12 increase but wanted to be sure.

  • '18 '17 '16

    The remaining Dutch territories would have been converted to British territories at the end of the non-combat movement phase on the German turn. America would get the 5D12.

  • But if you play with the Netherlands Fight Back expansion, the British player no longer takes over the Dutch colonies when the Netherlands is attacked (NFB 4.2), so the Japanese attack would be against the Netherlands (2D12) not Britain (5D12).

  • '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17

    @GeneralHandGrenade said in American Peacetime Income Increase:

    The remaining Dutch territories would have been converted to British territories at the end of the non-combat movement phase on the German turn. America would get the 5D12.

    That’s a great point you mention, GHG. Something That should probably be taken into account a bit more as an Axis player than one might initially think!

  • I understand that the remaining dutch forces align to the British at the end of the non combat phase but would that also entail that the allied player cant make decisions about the dutch forces being attacked in the combat phase. For example could the allied player choose to submerge the subs at borneo or java instead of doing battle? (given that the attacker didn’t have aircraft on maritime patrol)

  • Actually, for the Dutch Colonies, it’s at the end of the combat phase that they become controlled or aligned (Great Britain National Reference Sheet, v3.4).

    Until then, section 4.5 of the v3 Rules mentions that you have a limited decision-making. The definition of Control in the Glossary (0.9) adds: “This typically includes rolling for that nation’s units in battle and choosing their caualties in combat and if they survive long enough for you to do so, to manage their forces and make recruitement rolls (Table 4-2)”.

    Since they bothered to mention that you have to wait until the end of the combat phase for the control or alignement to take effet and nothing in table 4-2 mentions that you may submerge neutral subs, I would interpret this as Britain not having the option to submerge them during the Dutch combat phase, as they are not yet under their control or part of their alliance.

    Again, if you are playing with the Netherlands Fight Back expansion, then it’s different because they are already a minor power and may build units and move forces from the beginning of the game. So the Dutch player can make all decisions that are normally available during combat.

  • '18 '17 '16

    There is a clear distinction between control and alignment. As soon as the Dutch are are declared war on they come under the control of the British. They aren’t British but in absence of a Dutch player they are controlled by them. That means as you stated they control the rolling and choosing of casualties. As such, they can choose to submerge the submarines if that option presents itself.

    It took me some mental gymnastics to wrap my head around the concept of control and alignment and all of the ramifications, but once you understand it correctly the political aspect of the game comes into focus much easier.

  • Hello GHG, the problem we have is that the rules (in this case the Great Britain National Reference Sheet) clearly state that the Dutch colonies only become controlled or aligned to the British at the end of the combat phase :

    DUTCH COLONIES If Axis or Comintern declares war on the Netherlands, Netherlands becomes Controlled by or Aligned to Great Britain at the end of the Combat Phase. Once Aligned, it may distribute this income as it sees fit to itself, FEC or ANZAC.”

    In your answer, you mention “As soon as the Dutch are are declared war on they come under the control of the British”, so that could be during a combat move against the Dutch and not only “at the end of the Combat Phase”.

    However, if submerging subs is considered an integral part of the decision process of rolling and choosing casualties, then I agree with you.

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