• Okay I really want to figure out a way to make UK not blow so much so what about a B1 placement of an IC in Africa in either of the 2 ipc spots (anglo/s africa).  If you could pour in 2 units per turn you could effectively deny german advancement into southafrica saving 5-9 ipcs of britains money per turn (because it will get taken over if left to only the 3/4 guys positioned in it).  Britain is so boring that I was thinking this might be a viable option.  Suggestions.

  • An Egypt IC is a gift to Germany.

  • how do you think? you can get rid of the tranny so I don’t see how they will be a force to reckon with.  also what about s. africa, or is that too far away?

  • actually i think the s. africa one would be pointless. that would pretty much be a gift to japan, far more easily than germany, if you retreat from india, then move those forces into egypt.  you can also move to two troops from australia into egypt as well.  by b2 it seems like it would be in a great position to be defended.  so maybe an IC could be built on b2 instead of b1 if you are that worried about germany overtaking it.

    also after looking at the board you could use one tranny from india first turn to bring 2 infantry (or one infantry one aa gun) and then move the transjordan infantry into egypt.  That is an extra 3 units in egypt first turn.  This will still allow the brit fleets to meet up to defend the other tranny/sub in case of a japanese assault.  I might try this next time, I don’t see what the harm could be, might actually be a viable option and could make britain a little more interesting.  I just think it is a good option because by turn 3/4 britain usually loses africa and that is the beginning of at least a 5-7 ipc loss within 2 turns that never generally never goes away until late in the game.

  • First off, to place an IC in Egypt, you have to own it at the beginning of your turn.  In all the games I have played the Axis (except my VERY FIRST where I went after Caucuses on G1), Egypt was in German hands at the start of G1.

    Second, kill the UK TRN in the Med on G1?  With WHAT?  The UK Bomber and the India AC FIG are the ONLY 2 units that can reach (the Gibraltar BB have been sunk by a strike of a sub and multiple AF in G1, and the DST being sunk as Germany invaded Egypt on G1), and the India FIG would have to land in Trans-Jordan (meaning it dies in G2).  1 FIG, 1 BOM against 1 BB and 1 TRN…  you have a 23% chance of winning that battle… and a 77% chance of losing both the FIG and the BOM… not to mention that FIG has more important duties, like giving you enough punch to actually re-take Egypt.  Bomber only, you have a 14% chance of killing the TRN… and a 99% chance of losing your Bomber.

    Third, even if you do re-take Egypt on UK1, AND kill the TRN, you are still going to lose Egypt AGAIN before you can build an IC there in UK2.  Germany simply re-takes it with 1 INF, 1 ART, 1 BOM, 1 FIG (maybe 2) against AT MOST 3 INF, and more likely 1 INF.
    3 INF is 92% German win  (99% with 2 FIGs)
    2 INF is 99% German win  (100% with 2 FIGs)
    1 INF is 100% German win

    And last…
    IF you sink the TRN in the med and
    IF you liberate Egypt and
    IF you re-liberate Egypt
    Then Germany has nothing left in Africa anyway, why build an IC there?  To harass Japan?  Would have been better off with India or Persia IC on UK1.

  • I have never played a game where germany takes egypt turn 1, but yes if they did take egypt turn one then this would not be a good strategy.

  • Switch is right in most games Eygpt is German territory on G1.  The UK is just to spread out and weak to really be exciting.  The UK really has to rely on the US to keep it’s African IPC.  They are best suited to send troops into the European theatre via Norway or Karelia (Karelia’s best IMO) andsupporting Russia so they don’t fall fast.  The UK are setup men.  They keep Moscow from falling and open doors for the US to land.  It isn’t exciting but it is important.

  • ok so thats fine, we have it pinpointed that if germany controls egypt g1 it is a bad move.  In the game I will play, I know they won’t control egypt g1 though, so what do you think about it now.  I think creating an IC there on a b1 controlled egypt offers fresh options and allows them to keep  hold of that area almost indef.  Any german or japan retaliation would require many resources and would take pressure off of russia while keeping 5-9 ipcs for britain per turn.  Plus this keeps germanys southern europe in check (usually it is left undefended) not to mention that with the addition of the british fleet you now have a sizeable force that can sit there.  If germany doesn’t take egypt g1 I just think this opens up a lot of avenues for britain to assist russia from a different angle.

  • I just don;t see a viable German strat that leaves Egypt intact through G1…  it destroys German access to African income, allows the Indian fleet to enter the baltic, invites a Southern Threat on what otherwise is a mostly secure front…

    It just is not viable to contemplate leaving UK in Egypt as Germany since it is overall a HORRID thing for Germany to do.

  • 2007 AAR League

    i agree with switch, look in our games section, i dont think there has been 1 game in the current tourney where germany didnt take anglo-egypt on g1, now if ger doesnt even attack anglo we are talking a whole diff game

    2 inf from tranny in india, 1 fig from india india fleet to the med, wow turns it into a whole diff ballgame, one which if played properly would spell doom for the germans in ohhh say uk6

  • u have mentioned that egypt on g1 is a must.  i was reading your strat concept switch and you mention nothing of doing this G1.  I was trying to find out what units most people take to overtake egypt but there was nothing in your strat telling me the units you would use, so would you might enlightening me in case i am G next time.  Thanks.

  • 2007 AAR League

    If you want to make the UK more exciting then try taking Borneo from the Japanese with 2 INF from India and the fighter from 35. If you don’t need your navy to still be around after J1 then use the destroyer to take out the TRN in 59… it will make your presence in Borneo felt even more so!

  • but that is a pointless move, because retaliation will be swift and deadly.  I am talking about a plausbile move that will give britain a presence for the rest of the game.  If germany doesn’t take egypt g1 (which according to everyone here always happens) then I think this is  very fun strategy to try out.

  • In most games the axis gets a 6 IPC bid, most people uses this bid to place one infantry in libya, and with an attack of 2 inf, 1 arm and with an airforce support of either 2 ftrs or 1 ftr and 1 bmb you can easily take out egypt. If you don’t use a bid you always have the option of using your med tranny to take a few infantry to egypt. But as far as I know its more common to use the bid infantry, and makes a better use of the tranny… Gibraltar maybe?

  • 2007 AAR League

    Actually the Borneo strategy is viable as most players have never had to defend against it and it can confuse them the first time… if they divide their navy wrong they can lose the battle off of borneo and it does take a turn or 2 to get Borneo back… 4 BIG IPCs for UK to counter the African loss… and 4 IPCs less for Japan to use against the mainland and the Americans… if Japan diverts that one transport they have left… then the mainland is looking pretty good to those 6 R INF on Buryatia… especially if the J player felt that China was more important than defending Manchuria…

    Basically it allows ALL 3 Allied countries to put pressure on J early and can make an unexperienced Japanese player spread themselves out too thin… plus any time you can force your opponent to make a new strategy on the spot it’s a good thing… alot of players have their opening moves “down-packed” … especially Japan as the majority of UK players don’t pressure Japan in the Pacific… and most Russian players will put those 6 INF in Buryatia every game… making them face the same situation on their first turn almost EVERY time… allowing them to use a perfected opening move.

  • its decent in theory but japan can negate it by taking india and austrailia both j1/j2.  I just don’t think the 4 ipc loss is worth losing that whole fleet off of india.  I would rather save the trannies and direct the fleet towards africa to counter german advancement, with a little luck and some help you can keep germany from taking africa which in 2 turns would be a 5 ipc swing from germany to britain (b1/b2 or b2/b3)

    edited, better 🙂

  • 2007 AAR League

    Germany never takes Japan  8-).

    And I don’t see how the Japanese can take Australia in J 2 with only Transport off of Japan in SZ 60.

    2 infantry cannot take Australia on it’s own… and if the Japanese split their navies too much the Americans can have a strong presense in the Pacific by that time anyway.

    In my game with Spook… the navy off of Borneo faired incredibly well… fighting off the first attack on it.

    As for India… the J player needs to choose between Taking India… China or defending Manchuria… it can’t do all 3 things at once the way this UK turn sets up… if it puts all its FIC forces into India… it has to put everything else into China to take it, and there won’t really be many units left there after the battle is resolved… and Manchuria will be almsot defenseless to the 6 R INF in Buryatia.

    For this too make sense to anyone you’d have to think through where EACH country (J,R,UK,US) are sitting after this UK 1 move and what position the Japanese are in to counter on 3 naval fronts (assuming the AUS fleet took out the Solomons sub) and 2 Mainlaind fronts.

  • I don’t leave troops in austrailia, I use the sub and tranny loaded with 2 guys and meet them up with the india navy.  They are better served being deposited in africa turn two to help prevent germany from taking over africa which is worth 4.5 times as much as austrailia, so yes japan can take it over first turn if they want in my games.  From there I can assault africa and with some decent rolls retake africa.

  • And as Japan I’ll sink that transport fleet before it ever reaches Africa, helping Germany out, and clearing the way for me to grab Australia far earlier than normal.

  • I agree.

    A rescue mission for the Australian infantry is hopeless, you might have a chance to get away if you choose to freight them to the east, but what use can they do to the east of aus? The Japanese can’t help going after a single ship, theres so much airforce available so it won’t even slow them down going after that tranny.
    I think the australian infantry should stay put and be ready to defend for when japan comes.

  • You don’t have to rescue them, 2 infantry loaded on a transport can then converge with 2 destroyers (if you think you are going to kill the one in trans with a G plane, fine, I will gladly trade a G plane for a destroyer and its a coin flip anyways) or 1 destroyer, 1 AC, 1 Fighter, 1 sub not to mention the sub has a preemptive strike.  Sure there is a good possibility the fleet will die but japan won’t be without some losses as well.  And I might not even make that a possiblity, I might just move everything to the bottom of the board (can’t remember the number) and then japans navy won’t be in range to hit them unless they want to sacrifice planes.  And that is fine too, it may take longer to get those troops into africa because I will have to go around the tip but it will still serve as the same purpose, and then I will be ready to consolidate my navy with any us (probably not british they will be working karelia) navy making transport moves.  It all depends, but there is a reason there is a sub and a transport down there, and they can get away 🙂

  • Liquid…

    The SZ15 DST is DEAD on G1, period, end of discussion.  Almost all the time it is killed by Germany w/o loss.  Also, the Suez is CLOSED to both sides after G1 sicne Germany hold Egypt and UK holds T-J.

    Now, that leaves you with 5 ships in the Indian/Pacific theater… 2 TRN, 1 SUB, 1 AC, 1 DST.  And a FIG… the ONLY UK FIG outside of London.  There are no reinforcements coming to help UK.  And Japan starts with 2 BB, 2 AC, 1 DST, 1 SUB, and 6 FIGs and a BOM… nearly all of it in range of one group or another of UK’s navy…

    UK’s Pac/Indian fleets are dead (or ran away) by the end of J2 in almost all cases.

  • How is the trans destroyer always dead?  Most people only bring one plane, thats a pretty even battle.  And that is fine if it is dead.  Like I said I am more than happy to converge my entire navy into the lower bottom square and swing around the south side of africa.  I can still save two troops to drop into africa if needs be.  Austrailia will get taken over regardless, so why sacrifice two extra troops just to hold it one or two more turns.  I am basically giving up 3-1 for my money.

  • The DST of Egypt/T-J i dead by FIG/BB/TRN as part of the Egypt amphib.

    If you consolidate your UK navy AND pull out of hte Indian ocean, you just let Japan get rid of your ships for free.  They need not worry about them OR kill them.  That leaves Japan in TOTAL control of both oceans for the entire game… and free to send a pretty sizable task force to Mexico or Brazil or Africa or to raid Australia, etc.

    And, it will be 5 turns before those ships reach UK to actually DO anything.  And by then, if the Atlantic is not already secure, the Allies are toast anyway.

  • @liquidvet:

    I might just move everything to the bottom of the board (can’t remember the number) and then japans navy won’t be in range to hit them unless they want to sacrifice planes.Â

    If the India Fleet moves striaght down and the Australia fleet moves due west, they converge in SZ30.  That SZ can be hit by more than just planes, the BB and AC in the East Indies can also get there.  If that UK fleet contains a loaded TRN, it may be worth it for Japan to strafe for a round or two to kill it.  But you are right, they will probably lose a fighter or two.  But if that little fleet includes everything, it means Eygypt was not retaken and the Kwangtung TRN was not sunk.  The Axis is in pretty good shape then and can probably afford to let that fleet go in order to concentrate on more important targets like China, Pearl, maybe Bury, and/or gearing up for a J2 assualt on India.

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