• Am I correct believing that in every strategic Axis&Allies game since Classic 1st edition it is either stated or implied that you can never intentionally purchase more units than you can possibly place and you cannot end the Place/Mobilize Units phase, if you have anything left to place that you can still place?

    I know both matters became relevant only starting with Anniversary, as if you, instead, lose what you don’t place, you have virtually no reasons to do either on purpose, but just wondering.

    I’m mostly wondering if in Revised you could intentionally and deliberately pull the strategy of purchasing more units than you can place to, then, decide what to place and what to lose? And how about deciding to lose something that you can place (I realize this would make no sense)?


  • I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that you are not supposed to intentionally purchase more than you can place. That rule is just there in case you make a mistake. I could be wrong though.

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 '12 Official Q&A Moderator TripleA

    @J-o-C said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:

    I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that you are not supposed to intentionally purchase more than you can place. That rule is just there in case you make a mistake. I could be wrong though.

    This is correct and has been clarified/added to the FAQ-sheets for all games that were released after Anniversary edition (first print), only.


  • @Cernel said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:

    And how about deciding to lose something that you can place (I realize this would make no sense)?

    Actually, it might make sense, even in Classic and Revised, in the case of having purchased a factory and, then, as a consequence of very harsh dice, you might prefer losing rather than placing it (assuming you are not in 3rd Edition Iron Blitz with Scorched Earth on, that is).


  • @Panther said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:

    @J-o-C said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:

    I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that you are not supposed to intentionally purchase more than you can place. That rule is just there in case you make a mistake. I could be wrong though.

    This is correct and has been clarified/added to the FAQ-sheets for all games that were released after Anniversary edition (first print), only.

    In my mind, this phrase literally means:

    “This is correct only for the games that were released after the first print of the Anniversary edition.”
    AND
    “This has been clarified/added to the FAQ-sheets only for the games that were released after the first print of the Anniversary edition.”

    However, what I believe you mean is:

    “This is correct (at least) for the Anniversary edition and the games that were released after the first print of the Anniversary edition.”
    BUT
    “This has been clarified/added to the FAQ-sheets only for the games that were released after the first print of the Anniversary edition.”

    In any case, I suppose I’m still waiting to satisfy my curiosity about anything before Anniversary…

    Also, I want to point out that my second case (undermobilizing) is not necessarily only the inevitable consequence of the first (overpurchasing), but also refers to not mobilizing something you can still mobilize, like in the case of (purposely) not mobilizing one or more units while you can mobilize all units that are in the mobilization zone.

  • Official Q&A

    @Cernel said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:

    However, what I believe you mean is:

    “This is correct (at least) for the Anniversary edition and the games that were released after the first print of the Anniversary edition.”
    BUT
    “This has been clarified/added to the FAQ-sheets only for the games that were released after the first print of the Anniversary edition.”

    No, he meant what he said. The rules for AA50 are different than what came later. In AA50, you are forced to mobilize as many units as possible, but over-purchasing is not expressly prohibited, and units that can’t be mobilized remain in the mobilization zone for later turns. From the FAQ:

    Q. On page 22 it says that any new units that you don’t place in the Mobilize Units phase aren’t lost, but can be placed on a future turn. Does this mean that I don’t have to mobilize my units if I don’t want to?
    A. You must mobilize all of your purchased units that you are able to. You may only hold back units that you can’t mobilize because you don’t have sufficient production capacity. These units remain in the mobilization zone until they are mobilized by you.

    Potential abuse of this rule was what lead to its revision in later games.

    @Cernel said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:

    In any case, I suppose I’m still waiting to satisfy my curiosity about anything before Anniversary…

    In Classic, it is impossible to purchase more units than you can mobilize, as capital ICs have unlimited capacity, and you cannot purchase or mobilize units if you don’t control your capital. Also, the rules state on page 21 that all purchased units must be mobilized. The same is true in the original Europe and Pacific games.

    In Revised, the rules state on page 22 that all purchased units must be mobilized. Over-purchasing is covered in the FAQ:

    Q. What happens if I forget the production limit and build, say ten infantry when my only industrial complex is in a territory with a value of eight? Are the two leftover infantry destroyed?
    A. Technically (which means, in a tournament), yes. In a friendly game, tell the player he’s making a mistake and let him take it back or refund him the money. You don’t want to win that way.

    @Cernel said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:
    Also, I want to point out that my second case (undermobilizing) is not necessarily only the inevitable consequence of the first (overpurchasing), but also refers to not mobilizing something you can still mobilize, like in the case of (purposely) not mobilizing one or more units while you can mobilize all units that are in the mobilization zone.

    This is not allowed in any version.


  • @Krieghund said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:

    @Cernel said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:

    However, what I believe you mean is:

    “This is correct (at least) for the Anniversary edition and the games that were released after the first print of the Anniversary edition.”
    BUT
    “This has been clarified/added to the FAQ-sheets only for the games that were released after the first print of the Anniversary edition.”

    No, he meant what he said. The rules for AA50 are different than what came later. In AA50, you are forced to mobilize as many units as possible, but over-purchasing is not expressly prohibited, and units that can’t be mobilized remain in the mobilization zone for later turns. From the FAQ:

    Q. On page 22 it says that any new units that you don’t place in the Mobilize Units phase aren’t lost, but can be placed on a future turn. Does this mean that I don’t have to mobilize my units if I don’t want to?
    A. You must mobilize all of your purchased units that you are able to. You may only hold back units that you can’t mobilize because you don’t have sufficient production capacity. These units remain in the mobilization zone until they are mobilized by you.

    Potential abuse of this rule was what lead to its revision in later games.

    Ok, thanks for the clarification. So it is legal and officially permitted to abuse the rule (nothing can stop you from deliberately overpurchasing).

    @Cernel said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:

    In any case, I suppose I’m still waiting to satisfy my curiosity about anything before Anniversary…

    In Classic, it is impossible to purchase more units than you can mobilize, as capital ICs have unlimited capacity, and you cannot purchase or mobilize units if you don’t control your capital. Also, the rules state on page 21 that all purchased units must be mobilized. The same is true in the original Europe and Pacific games.

    Are you sure that it is impossible to purchase more units than you can mobilize, in Classic? As I said, this is not really something that it is going practically to happen, but, at least in the 2nd Edition of Classic, I’m thinking about these cases:

    • Purchasing sea units that you have no chance to place because you cannot possibly clear the required sea zones.
    • Purchasing more sea units than the total placement capacity adjacent to sea zones (to the extreme of purchasing sea units when you only have IC in land zones adjacent to no sea zones).
    • Purchasing AA that you have no chance to place because of the presence of other AA you cannot possibly move out (for example, Japan has only its capital and no sea units remaining, and purchase an AA while having already one).
    • Purchasing more IC than the number of territories without an IC you own (to the extreme of purchasing an IC when you only own your capital).

    Also I don’t remember if removing a factory in the capital with Scorched Earth then liberating the capital may cause not to have the unlimited placement, therefore creating another case.

    In Revised, the rules state on page 22 that all purchased units must be mobilized. Over-purchasing is covered in the FAQ:

    Q. What happens if I forget the production limit and build, say ten infantry when my only industrial complex is in a territory with a value of eight? Are the two leftover infantry destroyed?
    A. Technically (which means, in a tournament), yes. In a friendly game, tell the player he’s making a mistake and let him take it back or refund him the money. You don’t want to win that way.

    Well, to me this reads as one player making an involuntary overpurchase, so I’m not seeing it clearly covering the matter in which I would deliberately decide to purchase more than I can possibly place (to, then, decide what to lose and what to place) (again, I realize this is practically not going to happen). I was actually leaning to read this as implying that intentional overpurchases were illegal in Revised too, since the clarification seems to assume that overpurchasing can only happen as a mistake.

    However, since you clarified that in Anniversary I can deliberately overpurchase, I’m clear now that is the same in Revised too.

    @Cernel said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:
    Also, I want to point out that my second case (undermobilizing) is not necessarily only the inevitable consequence of the first (overpurchasing), but also refers to not mobilizing something you can still mobilize, like in the case of (purposely) not mobilizing one or more units while you can mobilize all units that are in the mobilization zone.

    This is not allowed in any version.


    To summarize, this is what I now understand the rules are:

    OVERPURCHASE
    In all games from Classic 1st Edition to Anniversary, you can freely overpurchase (either by mistake or intentionally).
    In all games from Spring 1942 1st Edition, you can overpurchase only as long as nobody calls you out during the phase in which you do it (and, then, you need to affirm that you did it unintentionally).

    UNDERMOBILIZE
    In all games from Classic to the latest ones (all the same) you are forced to mobilize the highest possible number of units, once in the Place/Mobilize Units phase.


    Then, I still have some items I’m not sure about. This is my understanding:

    1- In Classic, I can purchase a sea unit that I can possibly place only if I clear a sea zone for it, yet, during the Combat Move phase, I don’t have to attempt to do it.
    2- In Classic, I can purchase an AA that I can possibly place only if I move out an existent AA, yet, during the Non-Combat Move phase, I don’t have to move any AA (being forced to mobilize as many units as possible applies only to the Place Units phase, never forcing me to make moves so to mobilize as many units as possible).
    3- In Revised and following, if, for example, I have only two IC, one in a value 8 and another one in a value 1 territory, while only the value 1 territory is adjacent to the sea, and I purchase 8 infantry and 1 battleship, then I’m obliged to place the 8 infantry in the value 8 territory and the 1 battleship in the value 1 territory. Meaning that I’m not allowed to place 1 infantry in the value 1 territory and 7 infantries in the value 8 territory, losing the battleship (since, at this point, I couldn’t mobilize it anymore, due to the placement actions I already defined). Therefore, the battleship purchase makes me unable to place 1 infantry in the value 1 territory, in this case.

    All correct?

  • Official Q&A

    @Cernel said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:

    Are you sure that it is impossible to purchase more units than you can mobilize, in Classic?

    You’re right, it’s not impossible. I hadn’t considered those possibilities. However, this is, in fact, covered in the rules. On page 21 it states that any units that cannot be placed are returned without refund.

    @Cernel said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:

    To summarize, this is what I now understand the rules are:

    OVERPURCHASE
    In all games from Classic 1st Edition to Anniversary, you can freely overpurchase (either by mistake or intentionally).

    Correct.

    In all games from Spring 1942 1st Edition, you can overpurchase only as long as nobody calls you out during the phase in which you do it (and, then, you need to affirm that you did it unintentionally).

    You also need to correct it.

    UNDERMOBILIZE
    In all games from Classic to the latest ones (all the same) you are forced to mobilize the highest possible number of units, once in the Place/Mobilize Units phase.

    Correct.

    Then, I still have some items I’m not sure about. This is my understanding:

    1- In Classic, I can purchase a sea unit that I can possibly place only if I clear a sea zone for it, yet, during the Combat Move phase, I don’t have to attempt to do it.
    2- In Classic, I can purchase an AA that I can possibly place only if I move out an existent AA, yet, during the Non-Combat Move phase, I don’t have to move any AA (being forced to mobilize as many units as possible applies only to the Place Units phase, never forcing me to make moves so to mobilize as many units as possible).

    Yes, but I don’t know why you would do either of these things intentionally, as you would forfeit the purchased units.

    3- In Revised and following, if, for example, I have only two IC, one in a value 8 and another one in a value 1 territory, while only the value 1 territory is adjacent to the sea, and I purchase 8 infantry and 1 battleship, then I’m obliged to place the 8 infantry in the value 8 territory and the 1 battleship in the value 1 territory. Meaning that I’m not allowed to place 1 infantry in the value 1 territory and 7 infantries in the value 8 territory, losing the battleship (since, at this point, I couldn’t mobilize it anymore, due to the placement actions I already defined). Therefore, the battleship purchase makes me unable to place 1 infantry in the value 1 territory, in this case.

    Correct.


  • Are you sure that it is impossible to purchase more units than you can mobilize, in Classic? As I said, this is not really something that it is going practically to happen, but, at least in the 2nd Edition of Classic, I’m thinking about these cases:

    • Purchasing sea units that you have no chance to place because you cannot possibly clear the required sea zones.
    • Purchasing more sea units than the total placement capacity adjacent to sea zones (to the extreme of purchasing sea units when you only have IC in land zones adjacent to no sea zones).
    • Purchasing AA that you have no chance to place because of the presence of other AA you cannot possibly move out (for example, Japan has only its capital and no sea units remaining, and purchase an AA while having already one).
    • Purchasing more IC than the number of territories without an IC you own (to the extreme of purchasing an IC when you only own your capital).

    I absolutely love all these cases. Can anyone - as a more ‘academic’ excercise - come up with more examples?

    Reminds me of me… coming up with the shortest possible Axis and Allies Classic game 🙂

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17

    @thrasher1 said in Overpurchasing and undermobilizing:

    Reminds me of me… coming up with the shortest possible Axis and Allies Classic game 🙂

    Absolute shortest A&A Classic game is as follows. USSR, German, and UK players would have to agree to do this. Japan and US players won’t have a say in the matter.

    Before play starts: Agree that game is over after one capital falls.

    USSR, Turn 1: Kill German fleet in the Baltic. Use fleet and fighters to ensure the German fleet is killed. Pass rest of turn.

    German, Turn 1: Evacuate Germany. Pass rest of turn.

    UK, Turn 1: Load transport off of UK. Invade Germany. Game over.

    As for shortest game with taking two capitals of the same power: Use the above as a start, will probably need two turns for the US to invade Japan…

    As for shortest game without cooperation? Depends on the dice…

    -Midnight_Reaper

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