Ksmckay (Axis) vs Amon-Sul (Allies +17) BM3



  • It, seems that, for Soviets when they declare war or are in war on one theatre, they are allied with other allies there no matter if those allies are at, war with axis on that, side of the board


  • 2019

    @Amon-Sul said in Ksmckay (Axis) vs Amon-Sul (Allies +17) BM3:

    It, seems that, for Soviets when they declare war or are in war on one theatre, they are allied with other allies there no matter if those allies are at, war with axis on that, side of the board

    This is 100% wrong. It might only be wrong for the soviets though.


  • 2019

    maybe I misread that. that might be the case for the same side of the board, but definitely not the opposite side of the board.


  • 2019

    Either way I will proceed later tonight with Japan when I have time and just assume its legal. I just like to know these things so that when I decide your strategy is awesome and I try to adopt it, it doesnt get rejected later on.


  • 2019

    TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 3

    TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4

    Game History

    Round: 3
    
        Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 fighter and 10 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 
    
        Politics - Japanese
            Japanese takes Political Action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Americans from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and British from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and UK_Pacific from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and ANZAC from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Dutch from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Germans and Americans from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Italians and Americans from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and British from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and UK_Pacific from Concordant to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for British and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for UK_Pacific and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for ANZAC and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and French from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_Allies from Neutrality to Friendly_Neutral
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_Axis from Neutrality to Unfriendly_Neutral
            Trigger Russians Allied Americans 5: Changing Relationship for Russians and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
    
        Combat Move - Japanese
            Trigger Japanese Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared  for rulesAttachment attached to Japanese
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 37 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 41 Sea Zone to Sumatra
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 37 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 42 Sea Zone to Java
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 43 Sea Zone to Borneo
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 34 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 44 Sea Zone to Celebes
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 34 Sea Zone to Celebes
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to Philippines
            2 bombers moved from Kwangsi to Philippines
            1 marine moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser and 1 marine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone
            1 marine moved from 21 Sea Zone to Guam
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Kiangsu to Kwangtung
            1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Kwangtung
            2 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
            1 infantry moved from Chahar to Suiyuyan
                  Japanese take Suiyuyan from Chinese
            1 fighter moved from Kwangsi to 44 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 37 Sea Zone to Java
            1 battleship and 1 cruiser moved from 37 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Anhwe to Japan
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangsi to Kwangtung
            2 fighters moved from Kwangsi to Kwangtung
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Hopei
                  Japanese take Hopei from Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Chahar
            1 infantry moved from Siam to French Indo China
                  Japanese take French Indo China from French
    
        Combat - Japanese
            Battle in Borneo
            Battle in Sumatra
            Battle in Guam
            Battle in 44 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter and 1 transport
                ANZAC defend with 1 transport
                    1 transport owned by the ANZAC lost in 44 Sea Zone
                Japanese win, taking Borneo from UK_Pacific, taking Sumatra from UK_Pacific, taking Guam from Americans with 1 fighter and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
            Battle in Java
                Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                ANZAC defend with 1 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 battleship and 1 cruiser in Java, round 2 : 2/2 hits, 1.17 expected hits
                    ANZAC roll dice for 1 infantry in Java, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the ANZAC lost in Java
                Japanese win, taking Java from ANZAC with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 infantry
            Battle in Kwangtung
                Japanese attack with 3 fighters, 1 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                British defend with 2 infantry; UK_Pacific defend with 1 harbour
                    Japanese roll dice for 3 fighters, 1 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber in Kwangtung, round 2 : 5/8 hits, 2.83 expected hits
                    UK_Pacific roll dice for 2 infantry in Kwangtung, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Japanese and 2 infantry owned by the British lost in Kwangtung
                Japanese win, taking Kwangtung from UK_Pacific with 3 fighters, 3 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
                Casualties for British: 2 infantry
            Battle in Philippines
                Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Americans defend with 1 airfield, 1 harbour and 2 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery, 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Philippines, round 2 : 5/8 hits, 3.50 expected hits
                    Americans roll dice for 2 infantry in Philippines, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Philippines
                Japanese win, taking Philippines from Americans with 1 artillery, 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
            Battle in Celebes
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                ANZAC defend with 1 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Celebes, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.50 expected hits
                    ANZAC roll dice for 1 infantry in Celebes, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the ANZAC lost in Celebes
                Japanese win, taking Celebes from ANZAC with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 infantry
            Battle in Yunnan
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in Yunnan, round 2 : 0/5 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                    Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Yunnan, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in Yunnan, round 3 : 1/5 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                    Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Yunnan, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Yunnan
                Japanese win, taking Yunnan from Chinese with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
    
        Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 37 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 battleship moved from 36 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 36 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 34 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone
            1 carrier and 1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 34 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Kwangsi to 42 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 44 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Celebes to 44 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Hunan to Anhwe
            1 armour moved from Kwangsi to Hunan
            1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Hunan to Anhwe
            2 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
            1 artillery moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Philippines to 35 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
            2 bombers moved from Philippines to Kwangsi
            2 infantry moved from Anhwe to Jehol
            1 fighter moved from Kwangtung to Anhwe
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
    
        Place Units - Japanese
            3 infantry placed in Kiangsu
            1 fighter and 7 infantry placed in Japan
    
        Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 54 PUs; end with 54 PUs
            Objective Japanese 6 Home Islands: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 57 PUs
            Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 62 PUs
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    ANZAC : -0.67
    Americans : -0.67
    Chinese : -0.67
    UK_Pacific : 0.33
    Japanese : 1.00
    

    Savegame


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    I was answering Amon’s questions by PM but didn’t know what game it was. I will review what you guys are saying and give you answers.

    BM3 has special rules for Russia in Asia if they are not at war with Japan - they can only go into the middle east. Like I said, I’ll read what you guys are saying here now.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    @ksmckay said:

    Russia is at war with Germany, US is at war with Germany, US is at war with Japan on pacific side of map, so Russia and US are at allies so US can land forces in russian territories.

    Exact same argument. But that is clearly against the rules.

    Russia has its own rules. In your example, the US may land forces in Russian territories, on the Pacific map only.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    @ksmckay said in Ksmckay (Axis) vs Amon-Sul (Allies +17) BM3:

    @Krieghund Can Russia move into UK pac territories if UK pac hasnt declared war on Japan? (Japan and Russia are at war).

    There is no such thing as UK Pac declaring war on Japan. UK (the whole board) is at war with Japan at game start.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    @ksmckay said in Ksmckay (Axis) vs Amon-Sul (Allies +17) BM3:

    Spelled out for soviets - fair since there is zero separation of powers - unlike UK/UK Pac which have some differences.

    I can certainly see your move being legal, but I dont think its as obvious as you make it out to be. To me its the exact same scenario which is spelled out for the soviets. Perhaps since it isnt spelled out the same way for UK pac is evidence enough, but I still think there is a little uncertainty.

    You’re right, the Soviet’s diplomatic situation is unlike any other power’s. UK’s diplomacy is uniform for UK Europe, UK Pacific, and ANZAC at all times - the distinction of Europe map and Pacific map is for Soviets only. The UK’s division between maps is purely economic.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    ~~Now the answer to your big question.

    In BM3, Russia is allowed to move anywhere in Asia if they are at war with Japan. The UK starts the game at war with Japan. Russia and the UK are allies on the Pacific map once Russia is at war with Japan also. Russia can definitely move into Burma.~~

    You need to make him pay for it with the Germans, though lol

    Scratch this, I was confused. The Russians can’t move anything into Burma because Russia and the UK aren’t both at war with Japan. Those tanks will be a little closer to Moscow now, though, after Amon-Sul makes his corrections 😉


  • 2019

    @gamerman01 we are good, but you said a couple things that were clearly wrong but either way it’s all good

    There is no such thing as UK Pac declaring war on Japan. UK (the whole board) is at war with Japan at game start.

    Russia has its own rules. In your example, the US may land forces in Russian territories, on the Pacific map only.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    Wait wait wait, duh, I was thinking of China. Hold on a sec


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    I’m still right about USA and Russia on the Pacific map, but after being away for a long time, I did get a little rusty there, let me reassess


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    And I was thinking of Germany/Italy, UK is at war with them, but right, not Japan, I got confused on that one point.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    Right, at R3, UK is not at war with Japan, so they are not allies on the Pacific map yet.

    Russia can’t move into Burma there on R3 because UK is not at war with Japan.

    Sorry I gave the wrong answer at first because I got rusty, but since you insisted I was wrong, I then saw it clearly 😛


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    I’m so sorry, Amon, I see now that you asked me about this situation 9 days ago in private chat, and this game is only a couple days old. So you made your UK2 thinking you could reinforce Burma with the Russians.

    Looking at the map quick, it may not be a disaster, though. The question is, would ksmckay attack Burma on Japan 3 with no Russians there? I would think not because it’s a pretty good stack there and he is now declaring war and taking islands, but only you can tell us, ksmckay.

    Secondly, did this screw up Amon’s whole Russia strategy because I told him wrong. Or is Amon fine with just re-doing Russia3 noncom? Let me know, guys, so I can try to help settle the mess that’s my fault.


  • 2019

    @gamerman01 @Amon-Sul

    I am fine with things as is in terms of the game.

    I wasnt trying to jump on you gamerman. You just said two things that were wrong and with the 100+ posts going on it was making things confusing.

    You said that UK starts the game at war with Japan - clearly not true.

    You said that US can land in russian territories in pacific map in the case where I described when Russia isn’t at war with Japan but US/Russia are allies in the war against Germany. - Not a reference to this game. Thats not true either.

    To me thats just a parallel of the case in question where UK Pac isnt at war with Japan. The rules state that they must abide by the rules for powers not at war. Their are multiple parts to that with multiple layers. The soviet case is spelled out clearly in the rules. The UK pac case is not. There is some room for interpretation. I am still not quite certain on the answer.


  • 2019

    @gamerman01

    I just want a clear answer long term for the next game. and for others in the same situation. For this game I personally dont care. I just thing the rules are a tad gray and when things like this come up I like to get answers. Rulebook has definitely proved fallible at times, and questions like these help clear up confusions.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    Oh, I was horribly wrong and you were right to stand your ground, of course!

    I thought in the case of USA landing in Russia that you were saying Russia was at war with Japan.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    I’m sorry where my confusion about the UK at war with Japan situation screwed up what I was saying and caused some confusion, but I actually do know exactly what the rules are, and whether that’s thanks to Krieghund’s many clarifications, I don’t know, but I will explain this again about the UK.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    UK/ANZAC diplomacy is always uniform and for the whole board. UK Pacific, for example, is at war with Germany and Italy from the start of the game. There is no separate diplomacy for UK Pacific. It’s separate ECONOMIES that gets everyone confused. Separate economies, but not diplomacy. Russia has separate diplomacy for each board, and I guess that contributes to the UK confusion as well.

    But the UK Pacific diplomacy should not be confusing at all. What exactly are you not 100% sure of at this point?


  • 2019

    @gamerman01 said in Ksmckay (Axis) vs Amon-Sul (Allies +17) BM3:

    Russia can’t move into Burma there on R3 because UK is not at war with Japan.

    Is this true or not? Its been answered both ways by you in equally confident ways.

    Initially, the point made by you and Amon was that even though UK is still neutral with Japan, Russia can move into UK Pac territories , because Russia and UK are at war with Germany and so are allies everywhere on the board.

    Then you said that was wrong, Russia cant move into UK Pac territories because UK isnt at war with Japan.

    Which is correct? Can russia move into an UK territory on the whole board because Russia and UK are allies against Germany? Or does the fact that UK is neutral with Japan affect the ability of russians to go into UK territories on pacific side.


  • Official Q&A

    @ksmckay said in Ksmckay (Axis) vs Amon-Sul (Allies +17) BM3:

    @Krieghund Can Russia move into UK pac territories if UK pac hasnt declared war on Japan? (Japan and Russia are at war).

    Yes. The USSR’s state of war with Japan lifts the restrictions of neutral powers from it on the Pacific map. UK is at war with Germany and Italy in Europe, so it is not neutral either. Since neither the USSR nor UK is neutral, USSR may move units into UK territories and vice versa, but only on the Pacific map. Per it’s specific and unique rules, USSR remains neutral on the Europe map, so they may not do so there. No power other than the USSR has separate neutrality on the two maps, so this does not affect UK other than in its interactions with USSR.


  • 2019

    @Krieghund

    Thanks


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    Oh. my goodness. Well like I told Amon in the first place, it’s a good question lol


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