Ksmckay (Axis) vs Amon-Sul (Allies +17) BM3

  • '19

    you could use the same argument for letting US land in soviet territories when Japan and Russia are still neutral (Russia and US are allies since both are at war with germany). But the rules clearly say that diplomacy is map side specific.

    I might still be wrong but your argument doesnt quite work.

    Japan cant fly over UK pac territories unless they are at war.


  • i asked gamerman a few days ago and he confirmed it.

    but i dont have problem waiting for him to confirm again

    cheers

    its odd, but it can be done.


  • is it legal for the soviets to enter burma before uk pacific is at war with japan?


  • Wow that’s a good question. I assume Russia is at war with Japan because that’s required for them to enter China, so yes. UK is at war with Germany and Russia is at war with Japan, so Russia is at war on the Pacific map and is an ally of UK since Russia is at war with Japan. I’m playing my first game in 2 years, so there’s that caveat, but I believe this is correct

  • '19

    That doesnt make sense as an answer. I wont hold the game up over this but

    Russia is at war with Germany, US is at war with Germany, US is at war with Japan on pacific side of map, so Russia and US are at allies so US can land forces in russian territories.

    Exact same argument. But that is clearly against the rules.

  • '19

    @Krieghund Can Russia move into UK pac territories if UK pac hasnt declared war on Japan? (Japan and Russia are at war).


  • We can wait for the rule confirmation.

    As for triple part, this thing isnt mentioned in the

    engine does not do list

    So if i am wrong, then triple a is wrong too

  • '19

    tripleA has some definite bugs and dealing with this issue for US/Russia is one of them - exact same scenario in my opinion. TripleA allows a number of different rule violations. (gets most of them right, so no complaining but far from perfect).

    Im working on it but wont get to do the turn regardless till tonight. So as of right now its not holding things up.

  • '19

    When not yet at war with Japan, in addition to the normal restrictions (see “Powers Not at War with One Another,” page 15) - page 38

    When two powers on opposite sides are not yet at war with one another, they operate under some special conditions and restrictions.

    Neutral Powers: When a power is not at war with anyone, it is neutral. While a power remains neutral, it operates under even tighter restrictions. A neutral power can’t move land or air units into or through neutral territories. It can’t move units into or through territories or onto ships belonging to another power or use another power’s naval bases, nor can another power move land or air units into or through its territories or onto its ships or use its naval bases.

    • Page 15

    Due to its separate treaties with Germany and Japan, the Soviet Union is in a unique position in its relationship with the Axis powers. As a result, if the Soviet Union is at war with Axis powers on only one map, it is still under the restrictions of being a neutral power (see “Powers Not at War with One Another,” page 15) on the other map. In other words, a state of war with Japan lifts those restrictions from the Soviet Union on the Pacific map only, and a state of war with Germany and/or Italy lifts those restrictions on the Europe map only.

    Spelled out for soviets - fair since there is zero separation of powers - unlike UK/UK Pac which have some differences.

    I can certainly see your move being legal, but I dont think its as obvious as you make it out to be. To me its the exact same scenario which is spelled out for the soviets. Perhaps since it isnt spelled out the same way for UK pac is evidence enough, but I still think there is a little uncertainty.


  • No need to rush. We wait for the exp ones to give their comment


  • It, seems that, for Soviets when they declare war or are in war on one theatre, they are allied with other allies there no matter if those allies are at, war with axis on that, side of the board

  • '19

    @Amon-Sul said in Ksmckay (Axis) vs Amon-Sul (Allies +17) BM3:

    It, seems that, for Soviets when they declare war or are in war on one theatre, they are allied with other allies there no matter if those allies are at, war with axis on that, side of the board

    This is 100% wrong. It might only be wrong for the soviets though.

  • '19

    maybe I misread that. that might be the case for the same side of the board, but definitely not the opposite side of the board.

  • '19

    Either way I will proceed later tonight with Japan when I have time and just assume its legal. I just like to know these things so that when I decide your strategy is awesome and I try to adopt it, it doesnt get rejected later on.

  • '19

    TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 3

    TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4

    Game History

    Round: 3
    
        Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 fighter and 10 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 
    
        Politics - Japanese
            Japanese takes Political Action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Americans from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and British from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and UK_Pacific from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and ANZAC from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Dutch from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Germans and Americans from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Italians and Americans from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and British from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and UK_Pacific from Concordant to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for British and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for UK_Pacific and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for ANZAC and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and French from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_Allies from Neutrality to Friendly_Neutral
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_Axis from Neutrality to Unfriendly_Neutral
            Trigger Russians Allied Americans 5: Changing Relationship for Russians and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
    
        Combat Move - Japanese
            Trigger Japanese Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared  for rulesAttachment attached to Japanese
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 37 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 41 Sea Zone to Sumatra
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 37 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 42 Sea Zone to Java
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 43 Sea Zone to Borneo
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 34 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 44 Sea Zone to Celebes
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 34 Sea Zone to Celebes
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to Philippines
            2 bombers moved from Kwangsi to Philippines
            1 marine moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser and 1 marine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone
            1 marine moved from 21 Sea Zone to Guam
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Kiangsu to Kwangtung
            1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Kwangtung
            2 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
            1 infantry moved from Chahar to Suiyuyan
                  Japanese take Suiyuyan from Chinese
            1 fighter moved from Kwangsi to 44 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 37 Sea Zone to Java
            1 battleship and 1 cruiser moved from 37 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Anhwe to Japan
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangsi to Kwangtung
            2 fighters moved from Kwangsi to Kwangtung
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Hopei
                  Japanese take Hopei from Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Chahar
            1 infantry moved from Siam to French Indo China
                  Japanese take French Indo China from French
    
        Combat - Japanese
            Battle in Borneo
            Battle in Sumatra
            Battle in Guam
            Battle in 44 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter and 1 transport
                ANZAC defend with 1 transport
                    1 transport owned by the ANZAC lost in 44 Sea Zone
                Japanese win, taking Borneo from UK_Pacific, taking Sumatra from UK_Pacific, taking Guam from Americans with 1 fighter and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
            Battle in Java
                Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                ANZAC defend with 1 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 battleship and 1 cruiser in Java, round 2 : 2/2 hits, 1.17 expected hits
                    ANZAC roll dice for 1 infantry in Java, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the ANZAC lost in Java
                Japanese win, taking Java from ANZAC with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 infantry
            Battle in Kwangtung
                Japanese attack with 3 fighters, 1 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                British defend with 2 infantry; UK_Pacific defend with 1 harbour
                    Japanese roll dice for 3 fighters, 1 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber in Kwangtung, round 2 : 5/8 hits, 2.83 expected hits
                    UK_Pacific roll dice for 2 infantry in Kwangtung, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Japanese and 2 infantry owned by the British lost in Kwangtung
                Japanese win, taking Kwangtung from UK_Pacific with 3 fighters, 3 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
                Casualties for British: 2 infantry
            Battle in Philippines
                Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Americans defend with 1 airfield, 1 harbour and 2 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery, 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Philippines, round 2 : 5/8 hits, 3.50 expected hits
                    Americans roll dice for 2 infantry in Philippines, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Philippines
                Japanese win, taking Philippines from Americans with 1 artillery, 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
            Battle in Celebes
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                ANZAC defend with 1 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Celebes, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.50 expected hits
                    ANZAC roll dice for 1 infantry in Celebes, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the ANZAC lost in Celebes
                Japanese win, taking Celebes from ANZAC with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 infantry
            Battle in Yunnan
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in Yunnan, round 2 : 0/5 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                    Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Yunnan, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in Yunnan, round 3 : 1/5 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                    Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Yunnan, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Yunnan
                Japanese win, taking Yunnan from Chinese with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
    
        Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 37 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 battleship moved from 36 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 36 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 34 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone
            1 carrier and 1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 34 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Kwangsi to 42 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 44 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Celebes to 44 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Hunan to Anhwe
            1 armour moved from Kwangsi to Hunan
            1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Hunan to Anhwe
            2 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
            1 artillery moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Philippines to 35 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
            2 bombers moved from Philippines to Kwangsi
            2 infantry moved from Anhwe to Jehol
            1 fighter moved from Kwangtung to Anhwe
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
    
        Place Units - Japanese
            3 infantry placed in Kiangsu
            1 fighter and 7 infantry placed in Japan
    
        Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 54 PUs; end with 54 PUs
            Objective Japanese 6 Home Islands: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 57 PUs
            Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 62 PUs
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    ANZAC : -0.67
    Americans : -0.67
    Chinese : -0.67
    UK_Pacific : 0.33
    Japanese : 1.00
    

    Savegame


  • I was answering Amon’s questions by PM but didn’t know what game it was. I will review what you guys are saying and give you answers.

    BM3 has special rules for Russia in Asia if they are not at war with Japan - they can only go into the middle east. Like I said, I’ll read what you guys are saying here now.


  • @ksmckay said:

    Russia is at war with Germany, US is at war with Germany, US is at war with Japan on pacific side of map, so Russia and US are at allies so US can land forces in russian territories.

    Exact same argument. But that is clearly against the rules.

    Russia has its own rules. In your example, the US may land forces in Russian territories, on the Pacific map only.


  • @ksmckay said in Ksmckay (Axis) vs Amon-Sul (Allies +17) BM3:

    @Krieghund Can Russia move into UK pac territories if UK pac hasnt declared war on Japan? (Japan and Russia are at war).

    There is no such thing as UK Pac declaring war on Japan. UK (the whole board) is at war with Japan at game start.


  • @ksmckay said in Ksmckay (Axis) vs Amon-Sul (Allies +17) BM3:

    Spelled out for soviets - fair since there is zero separation of powers - unlike UK/UK Pac which have some differences.

    I can certainly see your move being legal, but I dont think its as obvious as you make it out to be. To me its the exact same scenario which is spelled out for the soviets. Perhaps since it isnt spelled out the same way for UK pac is evidence enough, but I still think there is a little uncertainty.

    You’re right, the Soviet’s diplomatic situation is unlike any other power’s. UK’s diplomacy is uniform for UK Europe, UK Pacific, and ANZAC at all times - the distinction of Europe map and Pacific map is for Soviets only. The UK’s division between maps is purely economic.

  • 2024 2023 '22 '15 '11 '10 Official Q&A Moderator

    ~~Now the answer to your big question.

    In BM3, Russia is allowed to move anywhere in Asia if they are at war with Japan. The UK starts the game at war with Japan. Russia and the UK are allies on the Pacific map once Russia is at war with Japan also. Russia can definitely move into Burma.~~

    You need to make him pay for it with the Germans, though lol

    Scratch this, I was confused. The Russians can’t move anything into Burma because Russia and the UK aren’t both at war with Japan. Those tanks will be a little closer to Moscow now, though, after Amon-Sul makes his corrections ;)

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