Need help : UK is dead before they even start…

@MADDOGG:

Who decided that the japs must have an IC ?? How about transporting a bunch of troops into the action?? What a novel idea!! I just came up with that idea folks. You heard it here first!!! :evil:

IC+ TP equal ARM+INF.  TP= INF. Touchee!

limitedwhole, if all your strategic discussions are based off a no-bid game where starting ICs are limited to their production, with a moderately restricted Russia (but not totally), then everything that everyone is saying here is going to be completely invalid to you, and everything you are saying is going to be completely invalid to them. (I don’t consider the tech advantages you mentioned that important).

It’s like you’re playing two different games here. If I was playing chess against you while you were playing checkers against me, what sort of chaos would result?

Probably most of the people here are used to bid games, on the level I described before. At the very least you need to stick to out of the box rules: if you’re discussing strats based on some wacky rules your own play group uses, you need to be posting in the House Rules forum, not here.

Japan can easily afford to vacate FIC and Kwa, if they move in force to Man then Mongolia (or Yak), they can force the Allies to abandon SE without a fight or they end up losing Novo to Japan.

To Avin’s point,
it is a bit hard since everyone is probably comparing apples to oranges.

It is pretty much accepted that the Allies can employ any strat and basically win in most games (without a bid).  I could probably win by buying US IC’s in both Brazil and Ala on rd 1 but I don’t think it would be feasible to do so in a real game.

I believe equalizing factors are something like (at least to be competitive)
For RR:  12 bid
No RR:  21+ bid

Anything strat talk that doesn’t take into account anything close to those levels probably isn’t that reliable.

It is just hard to weigh tech or production chages, b/c the Allies can still wreck havok on rd 1.  Ukr will still fall on R1 (or be strafed) and KwangBang is also still an option.  That will basically end the game right there no matter what the Allies decide to do.

@Avin:

limitedwhole, if all your strategic discussions are based off a no-bid game where starting ICs are limited to their production, with a moderately restricted Russia (but not totally), then everything that everyone is saying here is going to be completely invalid to you, and everything you are saying is going to be completely invalid to them. (I don’t consider the tech advantages you mentioned that important).

It’s like you’re playing two different games here. If I was playing chess against you while you were playing checkers against me, what sort of chaos would result?

Probably most of the people here are used to bid games, on the level I described before. At the very least you need to stick to out of the box rules: if you’re discussing strats based on some wacky rules your own play group uses, you need to be posting in the House Rules forum, not here.

I doubt evrything I say is invalid and everything you say is invalid because of differnet rules.  Also Bids are house rules…duh.  Also I note that you relate bid games to chess while IC limit is relegated to checkers.  Bid games are lame.  they lead to swingyness.  Bid.  Put crap somewhere.  Go nuts.  Duh.  The rules I use simply make it so Russia can’t polp huge stacks at Karelia everyturn and make the game swingy.

Anyhow, I would still play most of the strategy I suggest even in a standard game WITHOUT BIDS.

you guys must some shit axis players if all you do is throw TP’s at Germany.  You would get killed aorund here with that crap.

Limited is right,
Bids, limited production, RR, etc. are all limiting factors and not house rules.

Lets remember to keep this civil.
I hope my posts didn’t come across as attacking you.  That was not my intent.

It is just harder to quantify how much the limited production or tech may help/hurt one side.
Whereas a bid of 15, is what it is, 5 extra inf.

Nope, I’m just a feist guy.  But I do maintain the following.  If all you do is load TP every other turn, a good German player attacks Russia on the turn you can’t attack him and slaughters you on the beaches the other turn.  That strategy is too predictable.  What do you do when I have 4 INF, 3ARM, and 3 FIG in WE on the turn you wanted to come with 2 ARm 6 INF, 1 FIG and 1 BOMB?  Finland stinks unless the GErmans already have a bead on KArelia, that is you are already going to lose.  Putting that many troops into Africa is silly.  Do you have your own capital ship or are you using a Brit ship?  Do they really want to put their forces in Africa and wait a turn?  If not what stops me from sinking 6 TP at the cost of 2 FIGs and replacing one FIG and stranding your guys in Africa?  Throwing everything at the Germans beaches is like hoping you don’t have one bad set of dice.

You’ve been playing double A ball. This is the major league. What works at double A might not work at all here. For example, in double A, I used to swarm my opponents with massive amounts of jap arm. I tried that against Avin and he was swatting them like they were pesky little flies.If you don’t believe me, then play me and let me be the allies. By the time it’s over, you will be rethinking all of your axis strategy.

You’re clearly not playing the same game we are. Your post where you said some strategies will be the same is correct: and clearly, you don’t know those strategies. I look forward to seeing you play Maddogg if indeed you want to learn about it.

LimitidHole-

There are a couple of things I think you are overlooking which should apply to any ruleset even your house rules.  First, in A+A defense is much stronger than offense so for this reason an offensive campaign has a much higher level to reach to be feasible.  Secondly, the game as is was not unbalanced because of some minor rule or procedural incontigruities but because of a severe material shortcoming for the Axis in terms of force on the ground at the start of the game.  The Allies can too easily remove too much too early so that no matter what rule changes you want to affect it isn’t going to solve this.  Thirdly, transporting troops is effective because it is possible for the Allies to use Russian space that is put their troops into Karelia to help defend there.  Some house rules don’t allow this but even so this doesn’t deter a “shucking” strategy of men from the US and Uk to Europe.  Instead the focus will shift from Karelia to WEuro, a little less ideal but certainly still workable.  Ultimately, the Axis as the protagonist cannot afford to spend many ipcs on innanimate objects like transports or factories, both do nothing but produce real units so unless there is a dire need for this as in the case of Japan it is best to avoid doing so as is the case for Germany.