• As a newer player, I was wondering if taking Karelia, which seems to generally have a negative effect, is more important than conquering Africa and gaining all those IPC’s.

  • Moderator

    Karelia is more important, but shouldn’t be attacked unless you are confident you could put up a good fight during the Allied counter and hold.

    I find you won’t be able to make a move on Kar until G4-G7 or so.

    I say Africa is of lesser importance because you really have to be careful about putting more resources into Afr then you are going to get out in return (IPC’s), and you can’t weaken yourself in Europe too much or a good Allied player will take advantage of that.

    If you get a bid and place some or all in Afr, that should be enough with one transport drop off to allow you to roam Afr, gaining the IPC’s without depleting Europe too much.  You don’t really want to engage too much in Afr, it simply isn’t possible to hold by Ger barring terrible Allied play.  But if you can run around then head for the Middle East around G3-G4 you can hook up with the German European forces (Or Jap SE Asia forces) if they push out from EE to Ukr to Cauc and this action can make the taking of Kar possible.

  • Africa can be your best friend or your worst enemy, especially if you are playing against a good USA player who uses the Shuck Shuck strategy.  If you use Africa with minimal forces and gain early IPUs in your early turns, it can help with the capture of Karelia.  But don’t get sucked into Africa and waste resources especially if the USA player bumrushes you there.  I would concentrate on Karelia, but its always a tough move considering you got Russia and Caucaucus right there, not to mention UK just a hop away from helping out in Karelia.  That’s why you need a strong Japan to make Russia defend its capital from the East as well.

    I use the German tank to blitz a couple countries, but I dont usually send over any additional forces except an armor from Southern Europe, and even that depends on how things are starting to shape up.  I try and take Africa only if the UK player decides to build an IC in South Africa.

  • How about neither :?

    I always say kill the armies which protect the squares and the pieces will fall into place.  In order to kill the armies you must have superior strength unless you wish to rely on luck.  So for this reason a Karelia that has been vacated because the Allies retreated will have less value than an Africa where a handful of units can pin down large numbers of forces.

  • sounds like junk to me

  • Wow how delightfully rude of you to post the same unintelligent remark in two threads.  Didn’t I read somewhere on this forum that you’ve never won a game?

  • :|Children!  Children!  Play nice, or you’ll have to come inside.

  • I just call em like I see em! I can spot horsesh*t a mile away. I may never have won yet, but I can tell that against you my first victory would be a breeze!!

  • Why don’t you practice speaking and writing in complete sentences before you go making claims about beating anyone ehhh Glass Joe.

  • Welcome back Agent Smith!! We sure missed ya! 😄

  • What???  I really don’t get why you are so hostile I just checked this site out for the first time yesterday and right away I get this.  Why???  I don’t understand why you think some have less right to say what they think than others.  All I know is from what I’ve read about you says you haven’t won any games so maybe you should be a little less rude to others.  You seem to be like this with others too what’s up with that?

  • I’m not hostile. You have every right to spout off nonsense. I just reserve the right to call it bullsht. I don’t mind if you poke fun at the fact that I haven’t won a game. Why are you so sensitive about the fact that everything you post is utter horsesht? Like I say….welcome back Agent Smith!!

  • Moderator

    MD, lets not attack new users.

  • I said Africa, but just like Rommel, I’m only usually interested in taking Anglo-Egypt so as to get the Brits out of there.  (And it’s worth 2, so it’s not a bad deal)  But the rest of Africa is not worth the trouble, and it will needlessly stretch your forces thin.

    Furthermore, I would say that building an IC in Anglo-Egypt gives the US the green-light for Operation Torch.

  • Definately Africa.  It is the most underated region of the game.  The key to understanding Africa is understanding that the allies don’y want to put too many troops in Africa either.  Sure, from NW Africa they can then land onto Europe, but pushing troops too far into Africa, reults in the Germans dropping troops behing you.  Very often Germany can take and hold most of Africa barring a major allied landing with minimal forces.  Given said massive allied landing, the Germans not only caused a major flip in income between them and Britain for several rounds but also deterred a significant allied push.

    My German opening always go as follows.  Note we play with a few house rules that limit IPC production of all territories to IPC limit and Russia cannot attack with ships and planes on th efirst turn due to disrepair and parts shortages.

    Purchase 1 TP, 7INF, hold 3 IPC.
    Attack British fleet and Russian scrub fleet with bomber, 2-3 figs, 1 sub, 1 TP.
    Attack British BB off Gibraltar with Sub and FIG.
    Move TP with ARm to invade turkey (use three IPC).  This blocks off the sub retreat.
    German inf and ARm attack EGypt with blitz.
    German FIg attacks British sub.
    German inf pushed down west coast of Africa.
    Eiether retake or fortify agaainst Russian first assault.

    The extra TP guards the German fleet from air assault.  It allows 1ARm, 2INF forrays into Africa whenever you want.  It also allows 1Arm, 2INF forays into Russian territotries behind their main line.

  • I should add one thing.  The first turn Tp build is critical for Germany.  I was flamed once for proposing it but it the most crucial build in the game.  Droping alone ARm into Africa sucks because it is vulnerable.  Dropping two Inf into Africa sucks because they cannot move fast enough down Africa to take South africa.  2 INF, 1Arm will easily secure Africa if done for 2-3 turns.  Taking Africa is critical as the British cannot afford to man more than two transports in Europe and build in India without Africa.  Toss in the occasional strategic bombimg at opportune momnets and Britain is dead without it.

  • Having 4/6 inf and 2/3 arm in Africa is flirting with weakening the eastern front for G.  If R has good dice, that could be costly.  If G’s dice are rolling well, it would work nicely. 🙂

  • Heya Sgt. Rock.  Good point.  i don’t really wnat that many troops in Africa though.  What I try to do, is simply ship troops when needed.  Allot of this depends on how the Egypt attack goes.  If it goes well there may be no need to ship further troops for a turn or so, where if it goes poorly a second turn shipment is certain.  What I like is the ability to hit the Russians with the transports too.  One TP in the Med is worthless.  Two TP is of much more worth.  I feel that it is a nescessary investment that normally pays large dividends.  It’s worth noting that if a first turn Egypt attack works, the Brits cannot really build an IC in South Africa or risk losing outright.

  • I cannot recal a single game I have played where Germany took South Africa (OK, 1 game)…

    It is not just G1 in Egypt, but G2 against a liberated Egypt.

    Then the US (and possibly UK also) landing in Algeria…
    Possible second landing then next turn in FWA…

    In those games where South Africa falls and I am playing hte Axis, it is usually Japan taking it, not Germany.

  • @ncscswitch:

    I cannot recal a single game I have played where Germany took South Africa (OK, 1 game)…

    You also don’t man two TP in the Med.

  • @ncscswitch:

    I cannot recal a single game I have played where Germany took South Africa (OK, 1 game)…

    It is not just G1 in Egypt, but G2 against a liberated Egypt.

    Then the US (and possibly UK also) landing in Algeria…
    Possible second landing then next turn in FWA…

    In those games where South Africa falls and I am playing hte Axis, it is usually Japan taking it, not Germany.

    G2 Liberated Egypt?  What are you vacating India?  why not just let the Axis win?  Okay, G2 Egypt is Germanies again and their is no counterattck possibly.  japan rolles into India on J2.  Germany rolls its ARM on G3 into SA.

  • Moderator

    I’m with Limited and SUD on this one.

    Although I usually try to bid enough to Afr deter the UK 1 counter of Egy, but still your tran should survive to rd 2 and you can probably get to SAfr by rd 4.

  • Forgive… I had a Revised flash-back there when I posted…

  • I frequently vacate India as it isn’t defensible.  I will maintain a counter attack option with 1 guy or so but beyond that its a waste.  Japan will get India sooner or later and putting money into it is stupid.

    What about an Africa which goes grey and just as it is being liberated the Japanese make it yellow?  I’ve found this is really the best the Axis can do there, and it really frustrates the Allies to lose Africa right after liberating it.

    In response to another thread about German strat I really don’t think the Germans can be played “intuitively” because very often they must protect themselves and even their units from loss.  It’s not so much that the tradeoff isn’t beneficial but rather that the Germans start with units if various players whereas as the game develops they will be unable to sustain this so they must take advantage of it while they can.  For this reason the Germans should fear a Uk counter of Egypt and should either not attack if they can’t hold, or attack it with so much that they can.

  • Moderator

    My German Strategy is simple, Invade first turn

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