Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB


  • May I say the F-word?

    Horrible dice in the north.

    G kills off an inf in Karelia and stands untouched in Vyborg.

    Now there’s a choice to make. I’m considering securing Leningrad, but it hurts.


  • TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Russians round 3

    TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0

    Game History

    Round: 3
    
        Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 9 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 
    
        Combat Move - Russians
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 infantry moved from Belarus to Baltic States
                  Russians take Baltic States from Germans
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Vyborg
            2 armour, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Novgorod to Karelia
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to Vyborg
            1 mech_infantry moved from Caucasus to Iraq
                  Russians take Iraq from Neutral_Axis
            1 fighter moved from Novgorod to Karelia
    
        Combat - Russians
            Russians creates battle in territory 125 Sea Zone
            Battle in Karelia
                Russians attack with 2 armour, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                    Russians roll dice for 2 armour, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Karelia, round 2 : 2/6 hits, 2,00 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Karelia, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Karelia
                Russians win, taking Karelia from Germans with 2 armour, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Battle in Vyborg
                Russians attack with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                    Russians roll dice for 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Vyborg, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1,33 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Vyborg, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Vyborg, round 3 : 0/3 hits, 1,33 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Vyborg, round 3 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Vyborg
                 retreated to Vyborg
                Germans win with 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -3
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
    
        Non Combat Move - Russians
            6 infantry moved from Yenisey to Timguska
            2 aaGuns and 12 infantry moved from Yakut S.S.R. to Yenisey
            2 infantry moved from Rostov to Bryansk
            3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Bryansk
            2 aaGuns, 2 artilleries and 12 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Bryansk
            6 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
            1 infantry moved from Belarus to Baltic States
            2 aaGuns, 1 artillery and 15 infantry moved from Belarus to Bryansk
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Vyborg to Novgorod
            1 fighter moved from Karelia to Novgorod
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Germans : 1,00
    Russians : -2,67
    

    Savegame


  • Alternative is of course to abandon Leningrad all-together and build the mechs in Stalingrad instead, keeping only 1 inf as blocker in Belarus.


  • The figs should still be safe in Karelia.


  • My gosh, so much spent to kill 1 German and keep Novogorod for an additional turn. Wow, that just wrecked the game.


  • @Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

    My gosh, so much spent to kill 1 German and keep Novogorod for an additional turn. Wow, that just wrecked the game.

    Not at all. The pressure on the western front will be enormous in just a little while and Germany is very low on income. They will have a hard time handling both fronts. I hope.


  • So what do you suggest, Bomber?

    Protect Leningrad and risk the air or abandon it, letting that single inf take it and focus now on Moscow?


  • @Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

    My gosh, so much spent to kill 1 German and keep Novogorod for an additional turn. Wow, that just wrecked the game.

    I insist that the plan was good. 🙂

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17

    @trulpen I would probably let him have Leningrad. and conserve the forces. The main thing is to get air to Moscow and you’ve accomplished that.


  • @farmboy said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

    @trulpen I would probably let him have Leningrad. and conserve the forces. The main thing is to get air to Moscow and you’ve accomplished that.

    I know. Still want to take advantage of the abscence of serious can-openers.

    Hell, it’s a learning game. I know the most solid thing is to conserve and prepare for the take-down. However, the Iraq-strategy is in line with the northern push.

    Anything G uses to counter the north will be drawn away from the grand price. As are most of our (rather mine, since I guess I’m alone in this prospect) resources up north.

    I’ll try it out and hope for the best, gladly exposing myself to a torrent of blame.


  • TripleA Turn Summary: Russians round 3

    TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0

    Game History

    Round: 3
    
        Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 9 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 
    
        Combat Move - Russians
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 infantry moved from Belarus to Baltic States
                  Russians take Baltic States from Germans
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Vyborg
            2 armour, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Novgorod to Karelia
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to Vyborg
            1 mech_infantry moved from Caucasus to Iraq
                  Russians take Iraq from Neutral_Axis
            1 fighter moved from Novgorod to Karelia
    
        Combat - Russians
            Russians creates battle in territory 125 Sea Zone
            Battle in Karelia
                Russians attack with 2 armour, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                    Russians roll dice for 2 armour, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Karelia, round 2 : 2/6 hits, 2,00 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Karelia, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Karelia
                Russians win, taking Karelia from Germans with 2 armour, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Battle in Vyborg
                Russians attack with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                    Russians roll dice for 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Vyborg, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1,33 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Vyborg, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Vyborg, round 3 : 0/3 hits, 1,33 expected hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Vyborg, round 3 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Vyborg
                 retreated to Vyborg
                Germans win with 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -3
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
    
        Non Combat Move - Russians
            6 infantry moved from Yenisey to Timguska
            2 aaGuns and 12 infantry moved from Yakut S.S.R. to Yenisey
            2 infantry moved from Rostov to Bryansk
            3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Bryansk
            2 aaGuns, 2 artilleries and 12 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Bryansk
            2 aaGuns, 1 artillery and 15 infantry moved from Belarus to Bryansk
            6 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
            1 infantry moved from Belarus to Baltic States
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Vyborg to Novgorod
            1 fighter moved from Karelia to Novgorod
    
        Place Units - Russians
            3 mech_infantrys placed in Novgorod
            9 infantry placed in Russia
    
        Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 38 PUs; end with 38 PUs
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 41 PUs
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Germans : 1,00
    Russians : -2,67
    

    Savegame


  • I’ll give this an hour before finalizing.

    If someone gives a clear argument, which I support, of not doing this, I’m open to change it.

    For clarity: The difference will be 3 mech in Stalingrad, air in Moscow and no blocker in Belarus.


  • Let him have Leningrad. It is a lost cause at this point. Thank goodness it is a practice game. Best to get these horrible die rolls out at this stage. Almost to a point of desperation in this game as you are so far behind “normal” even for a no-bid game.

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17

    The cost is that you are going to lose 3 inf that could be in Moscow. The benefit is that you deny him 7 ipcs and his air builds for Moscow become slightly more expensive (he loses a chance to build tacs in Leningrad). Probably this denies him a bomber which might make the trade closer.

    It does give you an opportunity to mess with Scandinavia. I would still be concerned that he might just gamble on the Italian bomber thinking its a low risk route (about 30% odds) of hitting the Soviet air. Probably he wouldn’t do that since he is not in desperate shape.

    If you don’t go with Leningrad, the mechs (at least 1) are probably better placed in Moscow since the inf still have time to reach there from Stalingrad too.

  • 2020 2021

    I also don’t like losing 4 inf. But they are “saving” the tanks and mob inf in Karelia. He can’t occupy Belarus next round. You’ll gain 5+ fighters. So no immediate crisis for Russia. The units in Karelia can’t really get back, if he stacks Baltic States and moves up Italian tanks as expected. So play the game in front of you, take Finland and then Norway. Leave blockers when able to slow his advance, and collect the added IPCs. Should give you and extra turn or several depending upon how many fast movers he sends to take you down. That hopefully will give the Western front time to build.


  • Ok, it’s bold, but consider the Russian turn finalized. We won’t let a little set-back deter us from the greater glory, right? No-one remembers a coward. Right? 😁

    (Intentionally referring to the beginning of this game were I got the cowardice mark on my forehead.)


  • This was… interesting to say the least!

  • 2021 2020

    If I were Russia I would not have fought for Karelia and tried to save Novgorod for 1 Turn. It cost Russia 8 infantry to gain 5 fighters for the defense of Moscow and deny Novgorod to the Germans for one Turn. That is not a good trade. Also, now the Atlantic will be without 5 fighters which would have been very useful to attack the Atlantic Wall.

  • 2021 2020

    I should add Russia will gain $3 more so they can buy one of those infantry back.

  • 2021 2020

    Japan 3:
    Is my capital safe? Since I am planning on abandoning SZ6 the US has a single infantry and single artillery attack. Next Turn they could add 4 fighters to that attack. I can easily counter that with my build.

    So, India is certainly the primary objective; especially since it is weak. The issue is how to take it? I can move my fleet to SZ39 and save myself the cost of a Naval Base. The problem with that is then the US is free to do whatever they want and I have no counter. If I build the Naval Base then the transport in SZ6 not only joins the India attack but the IJN in FIC (SZ36) has complete reach into the entire main Pacific area. Therefore, the US has to take that into consideration for anything they do. Okay so I need a Naval Base, and an Air Base and I need to protect Tokyo.

    Since the Russians are running away and I now have defenders in place I can go into Russia too.

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17

    @AndrewAAGamer His situation is already difficult since he lost Gib in Round 1 and he urgently needs to maximize the Moscow defence for G6. So he has to take some gambles. What he has lost for a G6 Moscow battle is 3 inf, 2 tanks and a mech. He had 3 more inf in Leningrad that were going to be stranded anyway. With better dice, he would have only lost 1 inf that wasn’t already stranded. He gained 6 air which adds to the defence more than 3 inf, 2 tanks and a mech and which makes any strat bombing of Moscow risky (although less so in OOB than BM). This also makes it easier for the US and UK to get a foothold in Norway and while the fighters can reach Moscow for G5 to block the bombing, they can also reach 110 if it appears after G4 that Moscow has more time.

    Denying you Leningrad for a turn also means you lose $7 and a G6 attack is $3 more expensive since you have to buy bombers and not tacs. I still probably would have only done Karelia and not tried to hold Leningrad, but the exchange may end up being closer. He just has to hope his blockers roll better.

  • 2021 2020

    @farmboy said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

    @AndrewAAGamer His situation is already difficult since he lost Gib in Round 1 and he urgently needs to maximize the Moscow defence for G6. So he has to take some gambles. What he has lost for a G6 Moscow battle is 3 inf, 2 tanks and a mech. He had 3 more inf in Leningrad that were going to be stranded anyway. With better dice, he would have only lost 1 inf that wasn’t already stranded. He gained 6 air which adds to the defence more than 3 inf, 2 tanks and a mech and which makes any strat bombing of Moscow risky (although less so in OOB than BM). This also makes it easier for the US and UK to get a foothold in Norway and while the fighters can reach Moscow for G5 to block the bombing, they can also reach 110 if it appears after G4 that Moscow has more time.

    Denying you Leningrad for a turn also means you lose $7 and a G6 attack is $3 more expensive since you have to buy bombers and not tacs. I still probably would have only done Karelia and not tried to hold Leningrad, but the exchange may end up being closer. He just has to hope his blockers roll better.

    I am not sure I agree with that assessment. I agree he needs to maximize Moscow. What is better 7 infantry or 5 fighters?
    And the fighters are not free. They reduce his Atlantic firepower.

    If he was not trying to block Leningrad he would not have 4 infantry in the Baltic States and Belarus. He used 3 infantry in the Vyborg/Karelia attack plus lost another infantry by building 3 mechanized infantry instead of 3 infantry. I am assuming he can get the mech and two armor back to Moscow though he may not. Not sure how those numbers equal a better defense of Moscow even with the Germans out $10.

  • 2021 2020

    TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Japanese round 3

    TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0

    Game History

    Round: 3
    
        Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 airfield, 1 fighter, 1 harbour and 5 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 
    
        Politics - Japanese
            Japanese takes Political Action: Political Action Japanese To War With Russians
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Russians from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and Chinese from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Russians and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
    
        Combat Move - Japanese
            1 unit repaired.
            1 transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Kiangsi to 20 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
            1 battleship moved from 42 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from 36 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
            2 fighters moved from 42 Sea Zone to Shan State
            1 infantry moved from Malaya to Shan State
            2 tactical_bombers moved from French Indo China to Shan State
            2 tactical_bombers moved from French Indo China to Kwangsi
            1 tactical_bomber moved from French Indo China to Shan State
            1 tactical_bomber moved from French Indo China to Kwangsi
            1 tactical_bomber moved from French Indo China to Shan State
            1 carrier moved from 42 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Sumatra to 41 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 41 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 39 Sea Zone to Ceylon
            2 fighters moved from 37 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            2 bombers moved from French Indo China to 39 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 42 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Kansu
                  Japanese take Kansu from Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Shensi
                  Japanese take Shensi from Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Manchuria to Amur
                  Japanese take Amur from Russians
            1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 42 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 39 Sea Zone to Ceylon
    
        Combat - Japanese
    

    Combat Hit Differential Summary :

    Savegame

  • 2021 2020

    Scramble SZ39? (I would recommend not to)

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17

    @AndrewAAGamer I think it was a mistake for him to build the inf in Leningrad last turn as that stranded those units. But now that they are there, they cannot reach Moscow, so we can’t count them against the fighters in the defense of Moscow. The tanks and mechs might make it back since you are committed to the southern route but that is unlikely. Although they likely do trade against some of your other land units.

    We can probably do a pretty good estimate of the odds in Moscow on this basis. If you take the stack that can reach Moscow on G6: 32 inf, 22 mech, 11 art, 16 tanks, 5 fig, 9 tac, and 6 bombers and you take what he can conservatively stack there:75 inf, 3 mechs, 3 art and 2 fighters + 1 tac you get 100% odds. If you add 4 British fighters and two tacs from the Middle East and India and the two allied bombers, you get 92% odds. If you add 5 more inf, 2 tanks and 1 mech (that would be saved had he not gone for Karelia and blocked Leningrad it goes down to 50%. However, if you take Leningrad and you can build an extra bomber your odds go up by about 10%. So you would end up at around 60%

    With the 6 fighters instead of the Soviet land units (5 UK and 1 Fr fig) and holding Leningrad (which likely denies you another bomber) it goes to 40%. So there is a difference on G6 of about 20%.

    I doubt you would attack with anything less than 90%+ odds, however, and I think you would have trouble maximizing the spending to hit Moscow with this much anyway (I’m assuming a 4 tac build this turn and 4-5 bomber build next turn which would be hard to sustain given the pressure that will be coming in the atlantic.) So that your odds are not yet high enough is an argument to have held back on landing the fighters in Karelia and plan on being able to send fighters either through Norway or the Med for a G7 or G8 attack. But he also has to worry about a strat bombing and its better if he can keep some air to contest Japan’s moves in India and potentially the Middle East. And small differences in the number of defending or attacking units can make a huge difference in what those odds are. If he couldn’t build 4 inf because of a successful strat bombing and 1 of those UK air in the mid east can’t reach Moscow your odds on G6 are almost back to 90%

    You are definitely right that he also needs those air in the Atlantic. It is best if they are in Gib or London, but from Karelia they can at least still reach 110 and if he goes to Moscow they can still land in Norway on UK5. And since you are likely not in a position now to spend solely for an attack on Moscow, he can pull some of that air back on the subsequent turn.

    Saying all that I think it probably would have been better to focus only on Karelia, give up on Leningrad and try to retreat everyone that he safely can. But he plans on making trouble for you in Scandinavia which, if Moscow lasts long enough, can end up being worth it too.

Suggested Topics

  • 223
  • 162
  • 727
  • 6
  • 54
  • 373
  • 27
  • 167
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

50
Online

15.3k
Users

36.5k
Topics

1.5m
Posts