Latin America at War and China at War Expansions
Hey again all!
I just saw yesterday that HBG had up their beta rules for Latin American and China at war. Very excited to see both of these! China needed some more spice to it, and this also brings South and Latin America into the game waaaay more than they typically do. Last time I played V2 as the Axis, I got lucky with my one time roll to activate Argentina and I got it! But other than that, there’s not a lot there.
I had a couple of questions on the beta rules though. I’ll probably email Doug and Will also, though they don’t seem to respond to my emails, so we’ll see if they even get it haha.
I’ll start with China.
First, is the Version 3 2.0 rules that are up on HBG’s site also new? I swear I’d read in the V3 beta rules that the CCP was going to be allowed to spend their IPP’s each turn to try and activate a warlord nation under their control, but I now don’t see that in the rules. I thought the rule had said they can use their IPP and, if they roll a D12 equal to or less than the amount of IPP they paid, they would active that warlord to the CCP cause. Am I losing my mind or did that get changed?
More to the actual rules though as I see them. Under 3.1 of the Expansion it says “If at least one elite infantry unit is on the board, CCP gains +1 recruitment roll.” Does that mean they get to make a second recruitment roll, on top of the one they get to make as a minor power normally in the game? Or does that mean that you just add one to their chances to hit on that single roll? I’m assuming the latter, but thought I’d ask.
Also under 4.2 Soviet Support. Can the USSR give all that aid, regardless of their IPP amount, or do they need to be at wartime income? I only ask because the next section, 4.3 Allied Support, says very specifically that the “USA may - irrespective of income level” send an AVG unit to support the KMT. I wasn’t sure if the USSR rule meant they could do so at any time, or if they need to be at full income, or if they just need to reach the July 1937 threshold for the USSR to start attacking areas, and maybe this is lumped in to that time frame?
For Latin America.
I think all my questions here have to do with the timing of when things can or can’t happen. Can everything happen from the beginning of the game? Or do the standard game prerequisites still stand here? Examples:
- Rule 1.1b United States. Can they try and influence nations right away in the game? Or do they have to wait until they are at war? I’m assuming they can do this right away, but wanted to check.
- Rue 1.1c Soviet Union. Same question as above, and similar to my question for China Expansion. Can they influence right away in the game? Do they need to be at wartime income, or just the July 1937 threshold? I’d assumed at first they could do this from the beginning of the game, but the Random Event Table #3 specifies that “If the USSR is not at war with a major power, roll for a different Random Event.” That makes me think they have to wait for any type of influence to happen to be until they’re at war with a major power, right?
- Random events table #7 The Falkland Islands. Same type of question here, can this happen regardless of Germany and the UK being at war? As in, if they are not at war yet, and this is rolled (and assuming the prerequisites are met for Argentinian alignment), does Germany gain the Falkland Islands from the UK and not trigger war with them?
I also had a larger question on this as well in regards to Allied/US vs. Comintern relations. Let’s say a South American nation becomes aligned to the Comintern in the course of the game. Does that trigger the Allied ability to declare war on the Comintern? Unless I’m mistaken, isn’t the new rule for V3 that if the Comintern takes over any nation/territory that does not directly border Soviet Home Country that the Allies can declare war on them? Just wanted to understand if that applies here, as that could make a difference for a Comintern player wanting to actively pursue South American gains. Relatedly, wouldn’t the Axis or Comintern alignment of any South American nation automatically trigger the Monroe Doctrine as well? I get that if the US is already at war then this is moot, as it pertains to the Axis at least, but would be good to clarify because an Axis player would obviously not want to risk activation too early on otherwise. But still raises the same concern as above for the Comintern.
Great looking expansions, excited to try them both out!
Well, I answered one of my questions. The CCP ability to influence warlords is mentioned on the CCP Reference Sheet, and not in the rulebook. So that is a rule still that I had missed.
That maybe raises another question for me. Does the Chinese Expansion rules cancel out anything at all in the Reference Sheets? My guess would be no, but asking anyways!
The expansion rules don’t cancel the the OOB rules unless they specifically say so in the expansion you are playing.
The elite infantry would add 1 to the die roll.
Russia doesn’t have the same restrictions on lend lease that other nations do. They can start on turn one if they want to.
If you watch my recent China video, much of the rules have been explained not only by me but by the dude that invented the expansion set. When the set is officially released we are going to do another video together on that.
In regards to your first 2 questions, the Minor Nations could not possibly become aligned to the US or the USSR if they are not at war with a major power. The US could influence a Pro-Axis Nation to become neutral or a Neutral nation to become Pro-Allied, but it couldn’t influence a Pro-Allied Nation before at War with a major power because the only place to go from there is Aligned. The rules regarding Russia are different. They can only align a Neutral Nation. They don’t have the ability to move it towards them like the Axis and Allies do without aligning.
Falkland Islands. It clearly states right off the top that IF Argentina is Axis Aligned. That means that the Axis nation would have to be at war with a major power. It also states that you would re-roll if it is not Axis-Aligned.
Yes that would trigger the Allies ability to declare war on the Commintern. This is by no means a death sentence to the Russians. They still have to work together to defeat the Axis. For each side to go to war with each other half-way through the game would just be handing the win to the Axis. I would expect such a declaration to take place only in the last couple of turns in order to chase points or eliminate Russian points.
The Monroe Doctrine is significantly different in Version 3 than it was in Version 2. It had to be to allow for the Diplomacy expansion and now the Latin America expansion.
5.7 Monroe Doctrine: USA has a special doctrine in place known as the Monroe Doctrine which claims all North and South America as off limits to foreign colonization.
The Monroe doctrine allows USA to attack any foreign Major Power’s units that are bordering North or South American land zones indifferent to its own income level and without declaring war. USA is also allowed to attack captured land zones in North and South America.
US actions based on Monroe Doctrine does not trigger US peacetime income increases.
Thanks GHG, always appreciate your replies!
Yeah, that makes sense with China with rules not changing, I just wanted to be sure since the reference sheets had very specific things mentioned in them!
Thanks for clarifying the elite infantry roll, that’s what I was thinking it meant.
Thanks for the heads up on your video, I’ll have to go and check that one out!
Thanks for clarifying those first two questions. I understood they could not be aligned until at war, I just didn’t know if they could even influence. But what you said makes sense. And Doug actually got back to my email right away. Said the same thing essentially about the USSR: “USSR is a little different from the U.S. because they are not in the hemisphere. So they need to be at war before they can influence.”
Thanks on the Falkland Islands part too. I get that Argentina being aligned means Germany is at war, but it’s conceivable that war is not with the UK, is it not? That was my only question. It’s hypothetically possible for them to take the Falklands like that then, even if they are not at war with the UK it would seem? Doug said the same thing: “Correct, Germany could obtain the Falkland Islands and not trigger a war with UK. UK was hesitant about war with the Falklands until the war with Argentina later.”
Thanks for the Monroe Doctrine/Western Hemisphere clarification too. I just wanted to be sure I understood correctly. I agree, it’s not necessarily a Soviet death sentence at all, but it makes there be more of a strategy behind potentially activating, or for the Allies to take that step in declaring war. Like you said, late in the game is probably more realistic.
That’s interesting about the updated Monroe Doctrine rules too, ie that they can attack foreign powers there without triggering war. Definitely is going to make for some interesting games in South America!
Thanks as always!
Caesar Seriona last edited by
Yeah I can’t wait. I pitched the War of 41! and they changed some things about it but it got in none the less.