Calling off landings



  • I’m far from sure about everything I’m going to say; so just writing it, waiting to have an official answer if it is right or wrong.

    In Axis&Allies Revised, during conduct combat:

    • You can call off any landings, comprising landings on completely empty enemy territories from sea zones that never had any enemy sea units in them, and no matter if I’m only attacking by means of offloading or together with land to land movements.

    • If attacking together with land units, what happpens is that the battle starts with the units sent by land and air only.

    • If attacking a territory with land units all offloaded and some air units, if I call off the landing in the territory, all land units must be called off, thus I must do 1 round of combat with air only, before being able to retreat.

    • The decision is singular for each landing, and each landing is to be defined as everything that is being offloaded into a same territory, from one or more sea zones.

    For example, if:
    I have two enemy territories A and B.
    A have units offloaded from sea zones C and D.
    B have units offloaded from sea zones D and E.
    Both territories receiving units from a multitude of transports from both directions.
    Each transport is offloading two units.
    No other combat movements have been done.

    I can only decide to call off the landing in A or B or both, nothing else, about calling off landing and, in particular:
    I cannot choose to call off the landings of all the units from only one of the C, D and B sea zones.
    I cannot choose to call off the landings from C to A while still landing from D to A.
    I cannot choose to call off only what one single transport is offloading.
    From a transport that is offloading 2 infantries, I cannot call off one but still offload the other one.
    If I call off the landing in A but don’t call off the landing in B, what happens is that all sea units in C have their units back on board (theorically, actually, the units never really offboarded) while only the part of the sea units in D that are offloading into A have too.

    Am I guessing right?

    Also, are Axis & Allies Revised (2004), Pacific (2001) and Europe (1999) the only Axis & Allies strategic games that allow calling off landings, but with the only difference that Revised is the only one always allowing calling off landings, while in Europe and Pacific you can only call off landings specifically preceeded by a naval battle and, about this, what are all my options if the same territory had some units offloaded from an embattled sea zone and some other from a non embattled one? If not, which ones are the other games and what are all the differences?



  • @Cernel I meant to refer to Revised OOB only. Revised LHTR has no possibility of calling off landings like all rulesets following it, correct?


  • 2020 2019 2018

    DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT AN EXPERT OF A&A RULINGS. I HAVE @'d SOME FOLKS AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST WHO ARE OFFICIALLY AFFILIATED WITH LARRY HARRIS/WIZARDS OF THE COAST/HASBRO WHO CAN GIVE YOU CORRECT, “Word of God” ANSWERS. THEIR DECISIONS/RULINGS SUPERSEDE AND OVERRULE MINE

    @Cernel Interesting question for sure. I’ve never even considered backing out of an amphib before it begins. Some potential answers for you:

    @Cernel said in Calling off landings:

    • You can call off any landings, comprising landings on completely empty enemy territories from sea zones that never had any enemy sea units in them, and no matter if I’m only attacking by means of offloading or together with land to land movements.

    Seems reasonable, since occupying an undefended territory is still resolved during the “conduct combat” phase, except for the case of Tanks “blitzing”.

    • If attacking together with land units, what happpens is that the battle starts with the units sent by land and air only.

    Correct, same as if you had outright lost a naval battle involve Transports intending to conduct an amphibious assault.

    • If attacking a territory with land units all offloaded and some air units, if I call off the landing in the territory, all land units must be called off, thus I must do 1 round of combat with air only, before being able to retreat.

    Correct, see above.

    • The decision is singular for each landing, and each landing is to be defined as everything that is being offloaded into a same territory, from one or more sea zones.

    The rulebook seems to agree with you. See below, emphasis mine:

    @Revised_Rulebook_Page_19 said:

    “The attacker must declare the target of an amphibious assault during the combat move phase. During the conduct combat phase, that player may call off the landing but cannot redirect the attack to another territory.”

    As both references to amphibious assaults in the above are singular and not plural, it seems to me that you’re allowed to decide on a case-by-case basis.

    Also, are Axis & Allies Revised (2004), Pacific (2001) and Europe (1999) the only Axis & Allies strategic games that allow calling off landings, but with the only difference that Revised is the only one always allowing calling off landings, while in Europe and Pacific you can only call off landings specifically preceeded by a naval battle and, about this, what are all my options if the same territory had some units offloaded from an embattled sea zone and some other from a non embattled one? If not, which ones are the other games and what are all the differences?

    Classic is a bit vague on this. See relevant bit from the 3rd Edition rules, Page 16, under the “Transports” section. Emphasis mine:

    @Classic_3rd_Edition_Rules said:

    "How they Fight
    […]

    • See “Amphibious Assaults” under “Battleships” on page 15 [NOTE: That section specifically refers to a Battleship’s role in an amphibious assault]. If you are launching such an attack and the sea-zone adjacent to the target coastal area is enemy-occupied, then your naval force including your cargo-laden transport must engage in combat before the amphibious assault can occur. The following can happen:
      – If the zone is cleared and the transports survive, the transports can unload the assaulting land units. The transports are NOT part of this land battle, however, and cannot be fired at by the defending enemy. Once unloaded, assaulting land units CAN NEVER retreat!"

    The rulebook uses the phrase “can unload” rather than “must unload”. This implies to me that committing to an amphibious assault is optional, but only when you first won a naval battle outside of the Sea Zone. Of course, the rulebook doesn’t explicitly mention that you can call off an amphib either, so it’s debatable.

    This language is similar to what’s in the Europe '99 rulebook, on page 13, which makes sense because in Classic/Revised/Europe 1999/Pacific 2000 are the only A&A games where Transports have a Combat Value and may be taken as normal casualties in Naval Battles. Thus, these games allow you to call off an amphibious assault due to losing too many transports before the invasion target is reached.

    In AA50 and beyond, there is no ambiguous language surrounding amphibious assaults (i.e. “can unload”, “may unload”, etc.). The rules clearly state the land units that were aboard transports move into the territory to fight. See an example from the AA50 Rules, Page 17. Again, emphasis mine.:

    @Anniversary_Rules said:

    Step 3: Land Combat: If the sea zone has been cleared of all defending enemy warships except submarines and transports, and the attacker still has land units committed to the coastal territory, move all attacking and defending units into the battle board and conduct combat using the general combat rules (on the next page). Remember to put casualties from bombardment (if any) into the casualty zone.”

    Cut-and-dry. Once the Sea Zone is clear, you move in. This is likely because in the newer games, Transports don’t directly fight in combat, and thus you cannot end up with less transports in a SZ than you started with if you won the Naval Battle.

    Hope this helps.


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    P.S. @Panther and @Krieghund are the go-to’s for rules questions. One of them should respond at some point with the correct/authoritative answers.


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @Cernel said in Calling off landings:

    @Cernel I meant to refer to Revised OOB only. Revised LHTR has no possibility of calling off landings like all rulesets following it, correct?

    Revised LHTR uses the word “must” when describing the fate of land units after a naval battle preceding an amphibious assault. See below (Page 19), emphasis again mine:

    @LHTR_said:

    Sea Combat preceding an Amphibious Assault: This is handled like any other sea combat (only sea and air units participate). All your sea units (including your transports) attack all enemy sea units and fighters in that sea zone. If a sea combat occurs, your battleships fire at the same time as your other attacking units in the sea combat. They cannot support the assaulting land units. Once all defending sea and air units have been removed from the battle board in the sea combat (i.e. destroyed or submerged), then the amphibious assault begins. If any land units originally designated for the amphibious assault survive the sea combat they must now offload into the amphibious assault.

    Again, the language is clear. The units must unload after surviving the sea battle. There is no option to “call off” an amphibious assault.


  • Official Q&A

    @Cernel: What you have said regarding AAR, AAE, and AAP is mostly correct. However, as in AAE and AAP, in AAR you may only call off an amphibious when it is preceded by a sea battle. In assaults in which there is no sea battle, the units land during the Combat Move phase. As a result, it is possible to partially call off an assault if units arrived there from two different sea zones and if one involves a sea battle and the other does not, but only in that case.

    Neither AAR LHTR nor any of the games from AA50 onward allow calling off landings. The only way to not land the units is to retreat from the sea battle.


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @Krieghund What about Classic/Classic 3rd Edition? Just curious.


  • Official Q&A

    It is the same as the current games. Landings may not be called off.



  • @Krieghund said in Calling off landings:

    in AAR you may only call off an amphibious when it is preceded by a sea battle. In assaults in which there is no sea battle, the units land during the Combat Move phase. As a result, it is possible to partially call off an assault if units arrived there from two different sea zones and if one involves a sea battle and the other does not, but only in that case.

    You mean that I can partially call off the landings or that I must? Am I able to call off all landings to a same land zone as long as at least 1 transport is offloading from what was a hostile sea zone, or what? What I understand, from the fact that the units have already landed, is that what you mean is “it is possible to call off an assault only partially if units arrived there from two different sea zones and if one involves a sea battle and the other does not”, but just wanted to be sure (meaning that, in this case, either I call off nothing, or I call off all the landings from the embattled sea zones, while still always landing from the non embattled one, no other possibilities). Also, if, instead, both sea zones involved sea battles, either I call off the landings from both or none, right? In this case, I would not be permitted to land from one but not from the other one, I assume?

    If so, then, what I said is hardly mostly correct, I’d say, so let’s rewrite it, see if now I can be all correct:

    • In AA Revised OOB, AA Europe and AA Pacific the calling off of landing follows the exact same rules for all these 3 rulesets (this is usually the case for these rulesets).

    • In any other strategic WW2 AA Games, namely AA Classic I, II, III, AA Revised LHTR, AA Anniversary, AA Spring 1942, AA 1942 II, AA 1941, AA 1940 I, II, as well as any Alpha, there is nothing like this rule, so you must always offload all units from all surviving transports that didn’t retreat.

    • The calling off of landing is always decided per land zone (territory), never per sea zone, nor per coast, nor per offloading unit, nor per offloaded unit. Once I decide to call off landings in a land zone, all sea zones where landings can be called off are called off, but only for the transports offloading into that land zone, while all the other ones (the ones friendly since start turn) still offload.

    • When I offload units from a sea zone occupied by not ignorable (which is always the case in the relevant rulesets, as long as I’m in the combat move phase) enemy units, the offloading units remain cargo to the transports they are assigned to, albeit now inside a different zone (so, physically, during combat movement, I have the transports in one zone and their cargo in another zone, thus I have somewhat to keep track (nothing telling me how I am supposed to do that) of what is carried by what, without being able to keep the units next to their transports, then, when adding units to the battle board, I can go back keeping track of what is cargo of what, by regular means, but I, now, need to keep track of what is offloaded into where (nothing telling me how I am supposed to do that)). Otherwise (in practice, only in case of offloading from sea zones completely empty of enemy units since start turn), the offloaded units stop being cargo immediately as they move into the land zone (thus I’m relieved from having to keep track of where is what), as they offload.

    • Only landings of units offloaded from transports that did so from hostile sea zones can be called off, and no matter if I’m offloading into a completely empty enemy territory or a defended one or even if I’m offloading into a territory I own (which I can do only in case I’m offloading into an empty territory that was blitzed during the same turn).

    • I cannot (or, rather, don’t have to) call off any landings after I finish any naval battles, as the only moment I can do this is upon starting, or not starting, that land battle.

    Example:
    The game is Axis&Allies Revised (OOB).
    I have a land zone A, a land zone B and a land zone C.
    The land zone A is being attacked from sea and air only.
    The land zone B is being attacked from sea only.
    The land zone C is being attacked from land and air only.
    I have a sea zone D, a sea zone E and a sea zone F.
    A bunch of transports are offloading from D to A.
    A bunch of transports are offloading from D to B.
    A bunch of transports are offloading from E to A.
    A bunch of transports are offloading from F to A.
    No other combat movements are being made.
    D is occupied by enemy units.
    E is occupied by enemy units.
    F is not occupied by enemy units.

    So, I generate the following set of battles: A, B, C, D, E
    I can resolve these battles in any order, provided that I resolve D before resolving A or B and I resolve E before resolving A.

    1:
    I resolve the battle in D, winning with all transports surviving.
    At this point I don’t have nor cannot decide if the transports are actually offloading.
    I can now resolve whatever battles but A (I can now resolve B, if I want).

    2:
    I resolve the battle in E, winning with all transports surviving.
    At this point I don’t have nor cannot decide if the transports are actually offloading.
    I can now resolve whatever remaining battles.

    3:
    I resolve the battle in C (which I could have resolved as first, since nothing is offloading into it).

    4:
    I resolve the battle in A and, at this point, before starting anything else battle related, I decide to call off the landings into A. That is calling off all and only the landings from sea zones there were hostile at the start of the turn, and no matter if my units are offloading at full strength, just like if there were no battles, as I didn’t lose any transports (thus, substantially, as long as I don’t lose any transports, enemy sea units give me this additional option, of calling off landings, for free, beside any casualties in the sea battle I had to sustain and the inability of using naval bombardment from those zones).
    In doing so, my only option is either to call off all landings from hostile or none: I cannot decide to land from D but not from E, nor vice versa, and I must always land from F.
    So, calling off the landings, the only thing that can possibly happen is that the units offloaded from D and E stay all on board, while all the units from F offload, then make at least 1 round of battle with the land units from F and the air units, then I can decide to retreat the air units only.

    5:
    I resolve the battle in B and, at this point, before starting anything else battle related, I have to decide if to call off all landings, that, in this case, are all from D (no matter if I already positively decided to call off landings from that sea zone (to A)), and I decide not to.
    Then, while all transports offloading from D to A had their landings called off, all transports offloading from D to B actually offload, into the B territory.
    Thus I resolve the battle in B, nothing in it being possibly able to retreat.

    Is this all correct, now?

    If so, I still have some questions (with these questions I don’t mean I don’t trust you, I just want to understand why am I blind).

    How can you be that sure that

    you may only call off an amphibious when it is preceded by a sea battle

    About calling off landings, all I see is this section:

    Amphibious Assaults
    In an amphibious assault, land
    units offload from transports
    and attack an enemy coastal
    territory (one that borders a
    sea zone) or island group. The
    attacker must declare the target
    of an amphibious assault during
    the combat move phase. During
    the conduct combat phase, that
    player may call off the landing
    but cannot redirect the attack to
    a different territory.

    My assumption was that, having no reference to any previous sea combat and especially since this rule is part of the general “Amphibious Assaults” section (and even part of the same paragraph as all the rest!), and written even before the “Sea Combat” section, the only logical way to collocate it was as the rule being, well, general, for any Amphibious Assaults (comprising the ones from friendly sea zones).

    What I’m understanding is that you derive this from the fact that the rulebook makes clear enough that units landed from friendly sea zones are already offloaded on the combat move phase, thus they are not anymore linked to any other units in any ways, hence there is nothing to call off.

    So, is this just a matter of the rulebook being not very clear, or am I missing something that clarifies?

    Are you sure that this rules doesn’t apply in calling off all landings as long as at least one of them was from a hostile sea zone? What it would make the most sense to me is that if I’m offloading into a land zone A from a sea zone B and a sea zone C, and a naval battle is happening only in B, I should be either calling off both the B and C landing, or none, not only the B one. Are you sure it is against the rule calling off both B and C, and I must always either call off all in B and none in C or none at all?
    The reason why this would make the most sense to me is that I believe the main application of this rule is in case you took some transports as casualties, thus you think it is not anymore a good idea to land what is left. But, in this case, there is really no difference if I’m offloading 8 infantry from 4 transports in a same sea zone, and I lose 2 transports, in that sea zone, as opposed to offloading 4 infantry from 2 transports in an embattled sea zone and other 4 infantry from 2 transports in another not embattled sea zone, then losing the sea battle. In both cases, I’m down to 4 infantries, from a maximum of 8, thus I may want to call off the landings for the exact same reasons. Are you sure that in the second case that is not possible?

    Also, I think it’s very nonsensical that you can call off landings before starting a land battle but you cannot call off air units too, before starting the same battle. In case I have a land battle with all land units in it offloaded from a single sea zone, and I call off the landings, all air units in the battle are being obliged to make 1 combat round alone, which is usually a terrible thing to do, and pretty much it is going virtually to always take out my ability to call off landings, as I don’t want to sacrifice my air units to save some land. I think it would be much more realistic (and much more usable!) if I can call off all air together with calling off the landings, instead of being forced into an air only attack, in a territory I just don’t want to attack anymore, with my “D-Day” force or something. Was this something overlooked, when adding the calling-off landings rule, moving forward from Classic (I’m assuming this rule was added to enhance realism…)? If I have sea borne only with air, it is only logical to assume these air units are starting attacking as my soldiers land on the beaches, thus I should not be obliged to make any air attack if no soldiers are landing on the beaches, nor attacking from anywhere else, as you would think no air units have yet started attacking. If it is missing, I think it is needed a rule that if no land units remain after calling off landings, then I can call off all air units too, otherwise it doesn’t really make sense.

    Also, a related matter, if I have units already loaded onto an allied transport that is in a hostile sea zone (which can only happen if the enemy mobilized units there after I loaded, and my turn is in between of the enemy turn and the turn of that ally of mine), does that block me from possibly offloading them anywhere, since I cannot resolve any combat involving that transport, in the hostile sea zone, on my turn?


  • Official Q&A

    @Cernel said in Calling off landings:

    You mean that I can partially call off the landings or that I must?

    You can.

    Am I able to call off all landings to a same land zone as long as at least 1 transport is offloading from what was a hostile sea zone, or what? What I understand, from the fact that the units have already landed, is that what you mean is “it is possible to call off an assault only partially if units arrived there from two different sea zones and if one involves a sea battle and the other does not”, but just wanted to be sure (meaning that, in this case, either I call off nothing, or I call off all the landings from the embattled sea zones, while still always landing from the non embattled one, no other possibilities).

    You are able to call off all landings from sea zones where a sea battle was fought. You are not able to call off any landings from sea zones where a sea battle was not fought.

    Also, if, instead, both sea zones involved sea battles, either I call off the landings from both or none, right? In this case, I would not be permitted to land from one but not from the other one, I assume?

    Correct.

    If so, then, what I said is hardly mostly correct, I’d say,

    It looked mostly correct to me…

    so let’s rewrite it, see if now I can be all correct:

    • In AA Revised OOB, AA Europe and AA Pacific the calling off of landing follows the exact same rules for all these 3 rulesets (this is usually the case for these rulesets).

    • In any other strategic WW2 AA Games, namely AA Classic I, II, III, AA Revised LHTR, AA Anniversary, AA Spring 1942, AA 1942 II, AA 1941, AA 1940 I, II, as well as any Alpha, there is nothing like this rule, so you must always offload all units from all surviving transports that didn’t retreat.

    Correct.

    • The calling off of landing is always decided per land zone (territory), never per sea zone, nor per coast, nor per offloading unit, nor per offloaded unit. Once I decide to call off landings in a land zone, all sea zones where landings can be called off are called off, but only for the transports offloading into that land zone, while all the other ones (the ones friendly since start turn) still offload.

    If by “but only for the transports offloading into that land zone” you mean “but only for the transports offloading into that land zone from a sea zone where a battle took place”, then yes.

    • When I offload units from a sea zone occupied by not ignorable (which is always the case in the relevant rulesets, as long as I’m in the combat move phase) enemy units, the offloading units remain cargo to the transports they are assigned to, albeit now inside a different zone (so, physically, during combat movement, I have the transports in one zone and their cargo in another zone, thus I have somewhat to keep track (nothing telling me how I am supposed to do that) of what is carried by what, without being able to keep the units next to their transports, then, when adding units to the battle board, I can go back keeping track of what is cargo of what, by regular means, but I, now, need to keep track of what is offloaded into where (nothing telling me how I am supposed to do that)). Otherwise (in practice, only in case of offloading from sea zones completely empty of enemy units since start turn), the offloaded units stop being cargo immediately as they move into the land zone (thus I’m relieved from having to keep track of where is what), as they offload.

    I’m not sure what you mean about the transports and their cargo being in different zones, but this is correct otherwise. Cargo from transports not fighting a sea battle is offloaded into the target zone during combat movement, while cargo from transports that are fighting a sea battle is offloaded into the target zone during the combat phase. In both cases, the cargo remains with the transports until it’s offloaded.

    • Only landings of units offloaded from transports that did so from hostile sea zones can be called off, and no matter if I’m offloading into a completely empty enemy territory or a defended one or even if I’m offloading into a territory I own (which I can do only in case I’m offloading into an empty territory that was blitzed during the same turn).

    • I cannot (or, rather, don’t have to) call off any landings after I finish any naval battles, as the only moment I can do this is upon starting, or not starting, that land battle.

    Correct.

    Example:
    The game is Axis&Allies Revised (OOB).
    I have a land zone A, a land zone B and a land zone C.
    The land zone A is being attacked from sea and air only.
    The land zone B is being attacked from sea only.
    The land zone C is being attacked from land and air only.
    I have a sea zone D, a sea zone E and a sea zone F.
    A bunch of transports are offloading from D to A.
    A bunch of transports are offloading from D to B.
    A bunch of transports are offloading from E to A.
    A bunch of transports are offloading from F to A.
    No other combat movements are being made.
    D is occupied by enemy units.
    E is occupied by enemy units.
    F is not occupied by enemy units.

    So, I generate the following set of battles: A, B, C, D, E
    I can resolve these battles in any order, provided that I resolve D before resolving A or B and I resolve E before resolving A.

    1:
    I resolve the battle in D, winning with all transports surviving.
    At this point I don’t have nor cannot decide if the transports are actually offloading.
    I can now resolve whatever battles but A (I can now resolve B, if I want).

    2:
    I resolve the battle in E, winning with all transports surviving.
    At this point I don’t have nor cannot decide if the transports are actually offloading.
    I can now resolve whatever remaining battles.

    3:
    I resolve the battle in C (which I could have resolved as first, since nothing is offloading into it).

    So far, so good…

    4:
    I resolve the battle in A and, at this point, before starting anything else battle related, I decide to call off the landings into A. That is calling off all and only the landings from sea zones there were hostile at the start of the turn, and no matter if my units are offloading at full strength, just like if there were no battles, as I didn’t lose any transports (thus, substantially, as long as I don’t lose any transports, enemy sea units give me this additional option, of calling off landings, for free, beside any casualties in the sea battle I had to sustain and the inability of using naval bombardment from those zones).

    Yes, but you couldn’t have bombarded from the zone anyway, as there was a battle there.

    In doing so, my only option is either to call off all landings from hostile or none: I cannot decide to land from D but not from E, nor vice versa, and I must always land from F.
    So, calling off the landings, the only thing that can possibly happen is that the units offloaded from D and E stay all on board, while all the units from F offload, then make at least 1 round of battle with the land units from F and the air units, then I can decide to retreat the air units only.

    Yes, and the units from F must fight to the death.

    5:
    I resolve the battle in B and, at this point, before starting anything else battle related, I have to decide if to call off all landings, that, in this case, are all from D (no matter if I already positively decided to call off landings from that sea zone (to A)), and I decide not to.
    Then, while all transports offloading from D to A had their landings called off, all transports offloading from D to B actually offload, into the B territory.
    Thus I resolve the battle in B, nothing in it being possibly able to retreat.

    Is this all correct, now?

    Yes, with the caveats noted above.

    If so, I still have some questions (with these questions I don’t mean I don’t trust you, I just want to understand why am I blind).

    How can you be that sure that

    you may only call off an amphibious when it is preceded by a sea battle

    About calling off landings, all I see is this section:

    Amphibious Assaults
    In an amphibious assault, land
    units offload from transports
    and attack an enemy coastal
    territory (one that borders a
    sea zone) or island group. The
    attacker must declare the target
    of an amphibious assault during
    the combat move phase. During
    the conduct combat phase, that
    player may call off the landing
    but cannot redirect the attack to
    a different territory.

    My assumption was that, having no reference to any previous sea combat and especially since this rule is part of the general “Amphibious Assaults” section (and even part of the same paragraph as all the rest!), and written even before the “Sea Combat” section, the only logical way to collocate it was as the rule being, well, general, for any Amphibious Assaults (comprising the ones from friendly sea zones).

    What I’m understanding is that you derive this from the fact that the rulebook makes clear enough that units landed from friendly sea zones are already offloaded on the combat move phase, thus they are not anymore linked to any other units in any ways, hence there is nothing to call off.

    So, is this just a matter of the rulebook being not very clear, or am I missing something that clarifies?

    The rule you quoted states that the landing may be called off “during the conduct combat phase”. On page 31, the Rulebook states that, “A transport may offload its cargo during the combat move phase into a hostile territory, beginning an amphibious assault. If enemy sea units are present in the sea zone in which the transport is to offload, a sea combat must be fought first.” So, when offloading from a friendly sea zone, the offloading is done during the combat move phase, and it has already been executed when the decision whether to offload units depending on the results of combat is made. This is one of the reasons why calling off amphibious assaults isn’t allowed in the other games.

    Are you sure that this rules doesn’t apply in calling off all landings as long as at least one of them was from a hostile sea zone? What it would make the most sense to me is that if I’m offloading into a land zone A from a sea zone B and a sea zone C, and a naval battle is happening only in B, I should be either calling off both the B and C landing, or none, not only the B one. Are you sure it is against the rule calling off both B and C, and I must always either call off all in B and none in C or none at all?

    That makes sense to me, as well, but it’s not what the rules say.

    The reason why this would make the most sense to me is that I believe the main application of this rule is in case you took some transports as casualties, thus you think it is not anymore a good idea to land what is left. But, in this case, there is really no difference if I’m offloading 8 infantry from 4 transports in a same sea zone, and I lose 2 transports, in that sea zone, as opposed to offloading 4 infantry from 2 transports in an embattled sea zone and other 4 infantry from 2 transports in another not embattled sea zone, then losing the sea battle. In both cases, I’m down to 4 infantries, from a maximum of 8, thus I may want to call off the landings for the exact same reasons. Are you sure that in the second case that is not possible?

    I agree, and I’m sure.

    Also, I think it’s very nonsensical that you can call off landings before starting a land battle but you cannot call off air units too, before starting the same battle. In case I have a land battle with all land units in it offloaded from a single sea zone, and I call off the landings, all air units in the battle are being obliged to make 1 combat round alone, which is usually a terrible thing to do, and pretty much it is going virtually to always take out my ability to call off landings, as I don’t want to sacrifice my air units to save some land. I think it would be much more realistic (and much more usable!) if I can call off all air together with calling off the landings, instead of being forced into an air only attack, in a territory I just don’t want to attack anymore, with my “D-Day” force or something. Was this something overlooked, when adding the calling-off landings rule, moving forward from Classic (I’m assuming this rule was added to enhance realism…)? If I have sea borne only with air, it is only logical to assume these air units are starting attacking as my soldiers land on the beaches, thus I should not be obliged to make any air attack if no soldiers are landing on the beaches, nor attacking from anywhere else, as you would think no air units have yet started attacking. If it is missing, I think it is needed a rule that if no land units remain after calling off landings, then I can call off all air units too, otherwise it doesn’t really make sense.

    This all goes back to the fact that transports offload during the combat phase if there’s a sea battle. It’s all about timing. By the time you can decide whether or not the call off the landing, you’ve already committed other forces. Chalk it up to miscommunication and the fog of war.

    Also, a related matter, if I have units already loaded onto an allied transport that is in a hostile sea zone (which can only happen if the enemy mobilized units there after I loaded, and my turn is in between of the enemy turn and the turn of that ally of mine), does that block me from possibly offloading them anywhere, since I cannot resolve any combat involving that transport, in the hostile sea zone, on my turn?

    If you can clear the sea zone with your units, you can offload them. Since any sea battle will not involve your ally, the transport is not at risk and failure to clear the zone will simply result in the cargo’s not being able to offload.



  • @Krieghund said in Calling off landings:

    • When I offload units from a sea zone occupied by not ignorable (which is always the case in the relevant rulesets, as long as I’m in the combat move phase) enemy units, the offloading units remain cargo to the transports they are assigned to, albeit now inside a different zone (so, physically, during combat movement, I have the transports in one zone and their cargo in another zone, thus I have somewhat to keep track (nothing telling me how I am supposed to do that) of what is carried by what, without being able to keep the units next to their transports, then, when adding units to the battle board, I can go back keeping track of what is cargo of what, by regular means, but I, now, need to keep track of what is offloaded into where (nothing telling me how I am supposed to do that)). Otherwise (in practice, only in case of offloading from sea zones completely empty of enemy units since start turn), the offloaded units stop being cargo immediately as they move into the land zone (thus I’m relieved from having to keep track of where is what), as they offload.

    I’m not sure what you mean about the transports and their cargo being in different zones, but this is correct otherwise. Cargo from transports not fighting a sea battle is offloaded into the target zone during combat movement, while cargo from transports that are fighting a sea battle is offloaded into the target zone during the combat phase. In both cases, the cargo remains with the transports until it’s offloaded.

    Well, you cannot decide where you are offloading or if you are offloading after having won the sea battle (also, in this case, you would need not a rule like this for calling off landings), but I have to plot the offload movement during combat move, even though that is not really happening until after I win the sea battle. So, what I meant is that the only way physically to show that on the map is to move the units I want to offload into the land zone where I want them to go, while somehow keeping track of what is cargo of what, still, thus having a situation in which the transports are in the sea zone whence I’m offloading while the offloaded units are in the land zone they intend to move into (I mean on the map). Am I not supposed to do that? So, for example, if I have a sea zone with some transports carrying some units and want to offload some of them into a land territory and some of them into another land territory and keep some of them on board, if the sea zone is occupied by enemy units, I must leave all the cargo beside their transports until after the sea zone is cleared, but somehow (by other means then actually moving the pieces to the target zones) record where every unit is supposed to go?

    Also, a related matter, if I have units already loaded onto an allied transport that is in a hostile sea zone (which can only happen if the enemy mobilized units there after I loaded, and my turn is in between of the enemy turn and the turn of that ally of mine), does that block me from possibly offloading them anywhere, since I cannot resolve any combat involving that transport, in the hostile sea zone, on my turn?

    If you can clear the sea zone with your units, you can offload them. Since any sea battle will not involve your ally, the transport is not at risk and failure to clear the zone will simply result in the cargo’s not being able to offload.

    Ok so basically, I have these 2 scenarios:

    1. No units of mine are going to end the combat move phase inside that same sea zone: I can still plot to offload into an adjacent land zone, but, once I get into the conduct combat phase, I must undo that pointless plotted movement, as the sea zone is not clear and cannot be cleared (still no idea how I’m going to record that, if I cannot move the piece into the land territory until after the sea zone is cleared?).
    2. Units of mine are going to end the combat move phase inside that same sea zone: I can plot to offload from the allied transport into an adjacent land zone (again, not sure how I’m going to show that plotted movement on the map), but if, during the combat in that sea zone, I retreat or all of my sea units are lost and one or more enemy units survives, the unit or units that were going to be offloaded from the allied transports are, instead, stuck on board just like when retreating, except that the allied transport is not retreating anywhere (actually, now that I think about it, this should be the only case in which I can successfully offload from a sea zone hostile at the start of the turn if the sea battle in it ends in both sides being completely eliminated).

  • Official Q&A

    @Cernel said in Calling off landings:

    Well, you cannot decide where you are offloading or if you are offloading after having won the sea battle (also, in this case, you would need not a rule like this for calling off landings), but I have to plot the offload movement during combat move, even though that is not really happening until after I win the sea battle. So, what I meant is that the only way physically to show that on the map is to move the units I want to offload into the land zone where I want them to go, while somehow keeping track of what is cargo of what, still, thus having a situation in which the transports are in the sea zone whence I’m offloading while the offloaded units are in the land zone they intend to move into (I mean on the map). Am I not supposed to do that? So, for example, if I have a sea zone with some transports carrying some units and want to offload some of them into a land territory and some of them into another land territory and keep some of them on board, if the sea zone is occupied by enemy units, I must leave all the cargo beside their transports until after the sea zone is cleared, but somehow (by other means then actually moving the pieces to the target zones) record where every unit is supposed to go?

    Yes, you have to declare where each unit is going to go. I guess how you represent that is up to you (and your opponent).

    Ok so basically, I have these 2 scenarios:

    1. No units of mine are going to end the combat move phase inside that same sea zone: I can still plot to offload into an adjacent land zone, but, once I get into the conduct combat phase, I must undo that pointless plotted movement, as the sea zone is not clear and cannot be cleared (still no idea how I’m going to record that, if I cannot move the piece into the land territory until after the sea zone is cleared?).
    2. Units of mine are going to end the combat move phase inside that same sea zone: I can plot to offload from the allied transport into an adjacent land zone (again, not sure how I’m going to show that plotted movement on the map), but if, during the combat in that sea zone, I retreat or all of my sea units are lost and one or more enemy units survives, the unit or units that were going to be offloaded from the allied transports are, instead, stuck on board just like when retreating, except that the allied transport is not retreating anywhere (actually, now that I think about it, this should be the only case in which I can successfully offload from a sea zone hostile at the start of the turn if the sea battle in it ends in both sides being completely eliminated).

    Correct.



  • @Krieghund said in Calling off landings:

    Ok so basically, I have these 2 scenarios:

    1. No units of mine are going to end the combat move phase inside that same sea zone: I can still plot to offload into an adjacent land zone, but, once I get into the conduct combat phase, I must undo that pointless plotted movement, as the sea zone is not clear and cannot be cleared (still no idea how I’m going to record that, if I cannot move the piece into the land territory until after the sea zone is cleared?).
    2. Units of mine are going to end the combat move phase inside that same sea zone: I can plot to offload from the allied transport into an adjacent land zone (again, not sure how I’m going to show that plotted movement on the map), but if, during the combat in that sea zone, I retreat or all of my sea units are lost and one or more enemy units survives, the unit or units that were going to be offloaded from the allied transports are, instead, stuck on board just like when retreating, except that the allied transport is not retreating anywhere (actually, now that I think about it, this should be the only case in which I can successfully offload from a sea zone hostile at the start of the turn if the sea battle in it ends in both sides being completely eliminated).

    Correct.

    I thought about this, and my opinion is that this is a not very good or clean or consistent dynamic, for some reasons:

    • It introduces an exceptional situation in which offloading is cancelled in a way that can never otherwise happen, as here the units are not retreating, like when offloading is cancelled for the cargo being lost, but they are not being lost, either.

    • I think it can be argued that, in this case, the game should just end stuck in a situation where units cannot be offloaded because the sea zone is hostile but the planned offloading cannot be cancelled, either, because the offloading ships cannot retreat or be sunk. So, maybe, the situation is not really covered by the rules, except for indefinitely waiting for performing a planned offload that can never happen.

    • Every time we offload units from a ship, even if the ship itself remains in the same zone, it is implied that this ship is moving, and ending its movement, next to the coast of the land zone where we are offloading the unit (this is why in no games we can offload to multiple zones). So, the most consistent way this could be done for allied sea units that are offloading land units of the turn power would be that the ships’ owner has to declare the target land zone during the Combat Move phase of that ally’s turn (and, to be fully consistent, also abstaining itself from using the same ships to offload its units into any other land zones, on that same turn), then, during the turn of the power owning the offloaded units, that power could only decide whether to offload them or not, but only into the already decided zone (in practice, the transport would be immobile on that coast, and the units can decide whether to step out of it or not). Since this is not the game dynamic, defined in the rules, as we all know, what I think we are actually doing, when we offload units from allied ships during our turn, isn’t moving the allied ship to the coast we want to, as this would go against the general principle of not actively moving outside of the turn, but factually retroactively deciding what is the coast where that allied ships already moved to, during the last turn of that ally, even though that transport could have had on board also 1 unit of the same power as the ship, that offloaded into another land zone, so we would have a ship moving to two different coasts within possibly the same round. If so, I believe it should be impossible for the enemy ships to impede the offloading, as the ship is already right next to the coast, and arrived there when the enemy ships were not yet in the sea zone at all, so nothing can possibly stop it from offloading any units, unless it is sunk before being able to do so, which cannot possibly happen, on that turn.

    • If we have this turn order: “1, A1, 2”
      where 1 is the Power 1, 2 is the Power 2 and A1 is an ally of the Power 1.
      If the Power 1 has and buys only land units and the ally of the Power 1 has and buys only ships, what happens, under the clarified rules, is that there is no way for these two powers to ever offload anything, if the Power 2 keeps placing one unit inside the sea zone of the coast where the sea borne assault should take place.
      What would happen, in this case, assuming that the ally of Power 1 has an infinite number of offenceful ships and we have a sea zone that is adjacent to all relevant land zones, is an infinite sequence like this one:

    • Power 1 loads onto ships of Power A1.

    • Power A1 does nothing.

    • Power 2 places 1 ship into the sea zone.

    • Power 1 cannot offload from the sea zone nor load into it (nor clear the sea zone).

    • Power A1 clears the sea zone.

    • Power 2 places 1 ship into the sea zone.

    • Power 1 cannot offload from the sea zone nor load into it (nor clear the sea zone).
      And so on.

    I think this creates a realistically absurd situation, in which an extremely powerful naval power cannot get its ally’s land units into sea borne assaulting a much weaker naval power.
    However, it is to be said that the offloading alone dynamic is not the only reason of the impasse, here, as also the fact of being always unable to load onto ships inside sea zones occupied by enemy units is a blocker on its own, but, at least, you can get around that by assuring to load in a sea zone that is not adjacent to a territory whence the enemy player can place ships, then move the already loaded ships in there, so that’s not as much of a show stopper.


    I want to point out here I’m not really contesting the rules or their official interpretation or trying to give wrong information, just giving some personal opinions.

    What is the conclusion?

    In my opinion, what the rules should say, starting from the basics, without changing anything else, is that units offloading from allied ships can always successfully offload, no matter if the sea zone is hostile (not entirely happy or even convinced about this too, but it seems to me the most consistent solution, or at least what I’m tending to at the moment).


  • Official Q&A

    I think it’s fine the way it is. This ruling was arrived at by applying the relevant rules to the situation. These rules have been in place literally for decades, and as far as I know no one has complained about this ruling before now. I can think of only a handful of occasions in which it’s actually come up on the forums.

    Honestly, I think that the “infinite loop” situation you’re describing with very rarely, if ever, happen in an actual game. In my opinion, there’s no need to create rules exceptions for such a rare occurrence.


  • 2020 2019 2018

    Just throwing my two cents in, but I’ve played Revised competitively for years and no situation has ever come up I’ve ever bothered using an ally’s transport to conduct amphibious landings. It’s such an archaic rule because it creates needlessly complicated situations like the one @Cernel dreamed up and I’m glad AAO and Zombies axed it.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017

    I would also add that revising the rules for an out-of-print and already-superseded game (Revised was replaced by Axis & Allies, 1942, which was in turn replaced by Axis & Allies, 1942 Second Edition) would be a colossal hassle for no real gain. Just make your decisions as the game progresses and be done with it.

    -Midnight_Reaper



  • @Midnight_Reaper said in Calling off landings:

    I would also add that revising the rules for an out-of-print and already-superseded game (Revised was replaced by Axis & Allies, 1942, which was in turn replaced by Axis & Allies, 1942 Second Edition) would be a colossal hassle for no real gain. Just make your decisions as the game progresses and be done with it.

    -Midnight_Reaper

    Doesn’t this rule (or ruling?) apply to all games you mentioned? Actually, @Krieghund is the offloading from allied ships inside hostile applying all the same for all A&A strategic games except Zombies? I’m fairly sure it does, but just asking.

    @DoManMacgee Are you sure that AAO doesn’t want it on purpose or is it just a yet unsupported feature or deemed not worth coding yet? Haven’t really followed how much the game is or is not supposed actually to be a 3rd Edition (?) of 1942 (is it?).

    I guess everyone knows that almost all German troops in Africa were shipped by the Italian navy but, of course, that doesn’t matter if the Italians are Germans too.


  • Official Q&A

    @Cernel said in Calling off landings:

    Doesn’t this rule (or ruling?) apply to all games you mentioned? Actually, @Krieghund is the offloading from allied ships inside hostile applying all the same for all A&A strategic games except Zombies? I’m fairly sure it does, but just asking.

    Yes.


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @Cernel said in Calling off landings:

    @DoManMacgee Are you sure that AAO doesn’t want it on purpose or is it just a yet unsupported feature or deemed not worth coding yet? Haven’t really followed how much the game is or is not supposed actually to be a 3rd Edition (?) of 1942 (is it?).

    It was intentional to support asynchronous gameplay, I’m pretty sure. Same reason you can’t land Fighters on another friendly power’s carrier in that game. AAO was originally designed for casual, multi-player experiences. It was only after basically everyone told them to shove it, and that 1v1 ranked was what (most) people cared about that they implemented a ladder/ranked system (that’s my guess, anyway. For all I know ranked could have been planned from the start). However, it has been clearly stated by Beamdog that scrapping the ability to use another power’s transport/carrier was an intentional design decision.

    I guess everyone knows that almost all German troops in Africa were shipped by the Italian navy but, of course, that doesn’t matter if the Italians are Germans too.

    If you want a game that’s 100% historically accurate, or even close to that, A&A is the last place you want to be. Gameplay trumps historical accuracy here, and always has.

    But to your point, since Italy has debuted in AA50, the Mediterranean has been filled with Italian boats, and Germany’s navy has been limited to Subs in the Atlantic + the meager Baltic fleet.



  • @DoManMacgee Being able to move on board transports of your allies, as well as being able not to offload units into a territory after a battle changed what you are aware you can commit into the battle just makes sense. I think a definition of nonsense is not being allowed making something that makes clearly sense. Thus, not being able to load into a transport of an ally of yours that is fine letting you load onto it makes no sense, as well as it makes no sense that, after winning a sea battle, you are irrefragably driven into committing your, possibly decimated, forces to a battle, possibly with next to no hope, as all rulesets after Revised original oblige you to do. Of course, I’m aware that, in practice, both these items are next to irrelevant and are arguably far from clear, and even far from sensible, in all their possible applications (especially the rules for calling off landings, otherwise I would not have this discussion).

    @Krieghund As probably the final bunch of things about calling off landings, I assume that, during Non Combat Move, the land units that I called off cannot offload, if I loaded them on the same turn, while they can offload if already on board at the start of the turn (because, in the first case, they already moved, on the same turn, but not in the second case).
    I also assume they are not restricted offloading only into the territory where they intended to offload (in this case, this would be possible only if that territory has been conquered), thus can offload into whatever adjacent currently friendly territory.
    Finally, I assume they keep the ability to load units, if not offloading any.

    What the rulebook says is that:

    “During the conduct combat phase, that player may call off the landing but cannot redirect the attack to a different territory.”
    “A transport can never offload in two territories during a single turn”

    Hence, unless I’m missing something, I should be able still to offload to a different territory, during Non Combat Move, since I never actually offloaded, nor there is a rule inhibiting me to do anything for calling off landing, after the Conduct Combat phase.

    So, for example, I have two sea zones,
    one occupied by no units and
    another one occupied by enemy units and an allied unit with two infantry of mine on board.

    I move one transport with two loaded infantry into the empty sea zone, offloading both infantry into an enemy territory.
    I move offenceful ships into the enemy zone.
    I have one transport with 1 already loaded infantry on board, which I load 1 armour into, then move it into the enemy zone, offloading both the infantry and the armour into the same enemy territory.
    I offload all units from the allied transport into the same enemy territory.

    I conduct combat in the sea zone, killing all enemies without losing the transport.

    At the moment I decide to resolve the battle in the enemy territory, I decide to call off landings, which keeps the transport with the 1 infantry and 1 armour unoffloaded, keeps the allied transport unoffloaded, while still offloading the transport with 2 infantries (my only two possible decisions is either this or offloading everything I can).

    Then, during Non Combat Move,
    for the transport with the 1 infantry and 1 armour still on board, the armour is stuck on board, while I can offload the infantry into any adjacent territories that are friendly at this point (thus also into the same territory I called off the landing, if it was conquered),
    while, for the allied transport, I can offload all units on board into any adjacent territories that are friendly at this point (thus also into the same territory I called off the landing, if it was conquered).

    During Non Combat Move, if any of the transports I called off landings from would have had only 1 unit on board, I could have loaded 1 other unit on board of them, as long as not offloading any, from the same transport (this both for my transport and the transport of my ally, all else happening as described above).

    Finally, I could have called off the landings from the allied transport also in case the sea battle ended with both sides completely eliminated (thus only the allied transport and its cargo remaining in that sea zone).

    Correct?

    If so, I also assume that I can take advantage of this rule to load units onto a transport and send the transport in a naval battle while keeping the units on board. This series of actions is itself illegal (as I’m loading, thus moving, units that are not ending their movement into a combat situation), but, as long as I declare that these units are offloading into a land territory and, then, call off the landing, I’m sure to be able to perform this move practically just like if I would be able always to load units onto transports that are sent into combat, as long as the combat happens in a zone adjacent to an enemy territory I’m not amphibiously attacking.


  • Official Q&A

    @Cernel said in Calling off landings:

    @Krieghund As probably the final bunch of things about calling off landings, I assume that, during Non Combat Move, the land units that I called off cannot offload, if I loaded them on the same turn, while they can offload if already on board at the start of the turn (because, in the first case, they already moved, on the same turn, but not in the second case).
    I also assume they are not restricted offloading only into the territory where they intended to offload (in this case, this would be possible only if that territory has been conquered), thus can offload into whatever adjacent currently friendly territory.
    Finally, I assume they keep the ability to load units, if not offloading any.

    What the rulebook says is that:

    “During the conduct combat phase, that player may call off the landing but cannot redirect the attack to a different territory.”
    “A transport can never offload in two territories during a single turn”

    Hence, unless I’m missing something, I should be able still to offload to a different territory, during Non Combat Move, since I never actually offloaded, nor there is a rule inhibiting me to do anything for calling off landing, after the Conduct Combat phase.

    So, for example, I have two sea zones,
    one occupied by no units and
    another one occupied by enemy units and an allied unit with two infantry of mine on board.

    I move one transport with two loaded infantry into the empty sea zone, offloading both infantry into an enemy territory.
    I move offenceful ships into the enemy zone.
    I have one transport with 1 already loaded infantry on board, which I load 1 armour into, then move it into the enemy zone, offloading both the infantry and the armour into the same enemy territory.
    I offload all units from the allied transport into the same enemy territory.

    I conduct combat in the sea zone, killing all enemies without losing the transport.

    At the moment I decide to resolve the battle in the enemy territory, I decide to call off landings, which keeps the transport with the 1 infantry and 1 armour unoffloaded, keeps the allied transport unoffloaded, while still offloading the transport with 2 infantries (my only two possible decisions is either this or offloading everything I can).

    Then, during Non Combat Move,
    for the transport with the 1 infantry and 1 armour still on board, the armour is stuck on board, while I can offload the infantry into any adjacent territories that are friendly at this point (thus also into the same territory I called off the landing, if it was conquered),
    while, for the allied transport, I can offload all units on board into any adjacent territories that are friendly at this point (thus also into the same territory I called off the landing, if it was conquered).

    During Non Combat Move, if any of the transports I called off landings from would have had only 1 unit on board, I could have loaded 1 other unit on board of them, as long as not offloading any, from the same transport (this both for my transport and the transport of my ally, all else happening as described above).

    Finally, I could have called off the landings from the allied transport also in case the sea battle ended with both sides completely eliminated (thus only the allied transport and its cargo remaining in that sea zone).

    Correct?

    Yes.

    If so, I also assume that I can take advantage of this rule to load units onto a transport and send the transport in a naval battle while keeping the units on board. This series of actions is itself illegal (as I’m loading, thus moving, units that are not ending their movement into a combat situation), but, as long as I declare that these units are offloading into a land territory and, then, call off the landing, I’m sure to be able to perform this move practically just like if I would be able always to load units onto transports that are sent into combat, as long as the combat happens in a zone adjacent to an enemy territory I’m not amphibiously attacking.

    Yes. This loophole is likely the reason that cancellation of landings was eliminated from LHTR and later games.


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @Cernel said in Calling off landings:

    @DoManMacgee Being able to move on board transports of your allies, as well as being able not to offload units into a territory after a battle changed what you are aware you can commit into the battle just makes sense. I think a definition of nonsense is not being allowed making something that makes clearly sense. Thus, not being able to load into a transport of an ally of yours that is fine letting you load onto it makes no sense, as well as it makes no sense that, after winning a sea battle, you are irrefragably driven into committing your, possibly decimated, forces to a battle, possibly with next to no hope, as all rulesets after Revised original oblige you to do. Of course, I’m aware that, in practice, both these items are next to irrelevant and are arguably far from clear, and even far from sensible, in all their possible applications (especially the rules for calling off landings, otherwise I would not have this discussion).

    It’s a board game by Hasbro. There’s mountains of other things in this game that make no sense from a historical perspective, but at some point you have to make sacrifices in realism to make a game playable and its rules comprehensible. There are other theater-level wargames out there that do a much better job at realism than Axis & Allies, but they’re much more complicated games and, as a result, fewer people play them.



  • @Krieghund said in Calling off landings:

    @Cernel said in Calling off landings:

    @Krieghund As probably the final bunch of things about calling off landings, I assume that, during Non Combat Move, the land units that I called off cannot offload, if I loaded them on the same turn, while they can offload if already on board at the start of the turn (because, in the first case, they already moved, on the same turn, but not in the second case).
    I also assume they are not restricted offloading only into the territory where they intended to offload (in this case, this would be possible only if that territory has been conquered), thus can offload into whatever adjacent currently friendly territory.
    Finally, I assume they keep the ability to load units, if not offloading any.

    What the rulebook says is that:

    “During the conduct combat phase, that player may call off the landing but cannot redirect the attack to a different territory.”
    “A transport can never offload in two territories during a single turn”

    Hence, unless I’m missing something, I should be able still to offload to a different territory, during Non Combat Move, since I never actually offloaded, nor there is a rule inhibiting me to do anything for calling off landing, after the Conduct Combat phase.

    So, for example, I have two sea zones,
    one occupied by no units and
    another one occupied by enemy units and an allied unit with two infantry of mine on board.

    I move one transport with two loaded infantry into the empty sea zone, offloading both infantry into an enemy territory.
    I move offenceful ships into the enemy zone.
    I have one transport with 1 already loaded infantry on board, which I load 1 armour into, then move it into the enemy zone, offloading both the infantry and the armour into the same enemy territory.
    I offload all units from the allied transport into the same enemy territory.

    I conduct combat in the sea zone, killing all enemies without losing the transport.

    At the moment I decide to resolve the battle in the enemy territory, I decide to call off landings, which keeps the transport with the 1 infantry and 1 armour unoffloaded, keeps the allied transport unoffloaded, while still offloading the transport with 2 infantries (my only two possible decisions is either this or offloading everything I can).

    Then, during Non Combat Move,
    for the transport with the 1 infantry and 1 armour still on board, the armour is stuck on board, while I can offload the infantry into any adjacent territories that are friendly at this point (thus also into the same territory I called off the landing, if it was conquered),
    while, for the allied transport, I can offload all units on board into any adjacent territories that are friendly at this point (thus also into the same territory I called off the landing, if it was conquered).

    During Non Combat Move, if any of the transports I called off landings from would have had only 1 unit on board, I could have loaded 1 other unit on board of them, as long as not offloading any, from the same transport (this both for my transport and the transport of my ally, all else happening as described above).

    Finally, I could have called off the landings from the allied transport also in case the sea battle ended with both sides completely eliminated (thus only the allied transport and its cargo remaining in that sea zone).

    Correct?

    Yes.

    While we both agree that this is what the rules are literally saying, I’m actually uncomfortable with it. Beside retreating and flying back air units that participated in combat, combat movement is done on the Combat Move phase. So, I think it would be coherent the most that the transports are actually moving not only to the sea zone but also to the coastline of the territory they intend to offload into during Combat Move. If they would do so, then, they would not be able to offload the cargo that was called off into any other land zone, during the subsequent Non Combat Move phase. By, this way, substantially assuming that moving to the coastline is an intra-zone movement, done only after resolving the battle, I see the following inconsistencies or absurdities:

    • If the battle is victorious and landings are not called off, we are substantially splitting Combat Move between the Combat Move and the Conduct Combat phase, the transports going into the sea zone (but not to the coastline) during Combat Move, then moving to the coastline during Conduct Combat, after winning the battle.

    • If, after calling off landings, I can, then, offload into a different land zone, during the subsequent Non Combat Move phase, then I see no reasons why I cannot do the same during the Conduct Combat phase, deciding not only if, but also where, I’m offloading, only after resolving the sea battle. To be clear, there is no doubt that the rules are against redirecting landings or choosing where to land after resolving the sea battle, thus it is the other side of the coin that I’m feeling not coherent, as the only way I can possibly explain the reason of such limitations is that the movement to or towards the coastline, not just into the sea zone, was already made, during the Conduct Combat phase (this is the only reason why I can possibly explain why I cannot decide the coastline after the battle, though, in my mind, in this case, I should not be able to decide the coastline after the battle at all, for the whole turn, comprising the subsequent Non Combat Move phase, while the rules, instead, allow me to).

    • If the rules would have said that ships that called off landings still count as having offloaded (nothing) into the land zone they were meant to offload into (thus they cannot load anything and are restricted offloading only into the land zone where they called the landings off, if something else conquered or liberated it), this would have gone a long way to limit the aforementioned “loophole”.

    I guess it would be too much of a stretch to interpret the fact that I cannot redirect the landings to another land zone as also saying that, during the subsequent Non Combat Move phase, I can only offload into that same land zone (and lose the ability to load anything, since there is nothing to load from that coastline), but just wanted to clarify the reasons why I’m doubtful about the opportunity of, substantially, just threating transports that called off their landings exactly like transports that moved into the battle without any intention to offload their already loaded cargo (this doesn’t feel right to me, even not taking the loophole into account).


  • 2020 2019 2018

    You’re free to just make a house rule if you don’t like the official rules. People do that pretty often.



  • @DoManMacgee I’m mostly curious what is the assumed behaviour, behind the rules, with sea borne assaults preceded by sea battles. Basically what is happening between:

    1. The transports move to the coastline during Combat Move, take part in the battle, then offload (or not) the cargo, without moving within the same sea zone, during that phase.
    2. The transports move to the sea zone, yet not to the coastline, during Combat Move, take part in the battle, then move (or not) to the coastline, during Conduct Combat, offloading the cargo.

    If it is the first case, when I call off the landings, that means that I call them off while I’m on the coastline, while, in the second case, I call off not only the landings, but also the movement to the coastline itself.


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