KMT evolves to Major power as soon as Japan attacks!?

  • So I played my first game of G’36 V3 yesterday with some fine folks.
    In July 1937 when Japan attacked China, the Warlords all aligned to KMT as expected. However, for a fraction of a turn, the KMT reached its 13 ipp requirement to evolve to a major power, the rules stated that this happens “immediately” upon on reaching 13 IPP.

    Is this the case? Do the rules need tightening up with better language? Or is KMT a major power pretty much as soon as it is attacked?

    @GeneralHandGrenade have you covered this in your rules break down?

  • '18 '17 '16

    I’ve had this explained to me in the case of the Netherlands turning British once attacked. Assuming that the Brits are at war and the Netherlands aligns to the British upon being attacked by the Japanese, the alignment doesn’t occur until after the combat phase. In other words, the Japanese can attack as many Dutch territories and units as they want and the Dutch won’t change to British until the attacks are over and the territories have changed hands to the Japanese. This won’t constitute a Declaration of War against the British and trigger the American backlash.

    I would play China the same way. The Japanese should be allowed to finish their Combat Phase and the territories change hands before the alignment of the Warlords and the consequences are in effect. To do otherwise, you might as well count them all up as soon as Japan starts making their Combat Moves. That would break the game and the spirit of how the rules intended the consequences of Axis belligerence to work.

    You do point out something important for the Japanese player to consider though. They need to make sure they bring the KMT down below that threshold on their initial attack. Good catch.

  • @GeneralHandGrenade
    Thanks General. I had thought of it the same way, but the wording the rules led my colleagues and opponents to rule against me when determining how the KMT should be played out.
    I cant blame them for the decision as the wording in the rules uses the term “immediately”. Probably something that needs clarifying by Doug and the gang when they go back through it.

    Thanks for the reply.

  • @Dran-Black

    1. DoW on China as Japan during the German turn.

    2. China become a major power.

    3. Japan attacks China on its turn and gets that juicy wartime bonus income because they’re at war with a major power.

    Can’t wait to play Japan.

  • '18 '17 '16

    @mrgoatcheese That would be a good idea if such a bonus existed. The only Wartime bonuses Japan gets are in regards to possessing certain territories.There is zero benefit to Japan if China is a major power.

  • @GeneralHandGrenade

    I thought that Japan got bonus income from China’s coastal territory. But Japan wouldn’t be considered “at war” unless at war with a major power. So by making China a major power then Japan would collect its bonuses prior to attacking Britain.

  • @mrgoatcheese
    That is a really really good point.

  • '18 '17 '16

    @mrgoatcheese Oh I see what you mean now. I thought you were talking about some other bonus that I wasn’t aware of. I’m not so sure though if the 4 IPP they could gain by holding those territories is worth giving China a factory.

    However, at some point players have to consider the spirit of the rules. I contacted the guy writing the rules for V-3 to ask him about this. He replied that if a player pulled this BS at his table they would never be allowed to play there again. It’s obvious that there was no intention to create a loophole to allow the Japanese player to gain an unfair advantage and at some point players have to take some personal responsibility to play a fair game. It’s not about what you can exploit in the rules, it’s about not cheating your opponents. I know you will like to argue that you’re just following the rules and they need to be written better, but I still urge you to consider the spirit of the rules and play your opponents fairly. He is going to close this loophole for those who like to exploit them.

  • '18 '17 '16

    @Dran-Black After taking another look, Rule 4.9 confirms what I was saying about waiting until the end of the Combat Phase.

  • '18 '17 '16

    @mrgoatcheese If you really wanted to get technical with the rules 4.9 states “An attack by a foreign nation on a Warlord, CCP, or KMT, is considered an attack on all of China and causes all Warlords to Align to KMT.”
    So Germany would actually have to attack China and not just declare war on them.

  • 2023 '22 '20

    Not sure if this a good place to post a question about coastal defense ship sculpts. What do I want to use. Does it vary by country or is there one that is a best choice?

  • '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17

    @ADCGrey said in KMT evolves to Major power as soon as Japan attacks!?:

    Not sure if this a good place to post a question about coastal defense ship sculpts. What do I want to use. Does it vary by country or is there one that is a best choice?

    In part, the answer to this question depends on what you mean by, “Coastal Defense Ship”? Something like the Swedish Sverige class, with armor and weapons enough to sink enemy cruisers, or something more like a small patrol vessel, like the Japanese Kaibokan?

    I would think you would be best served by starting a new thread, in the Customizations forum, for this question. I recommend answering my question above and then asking your revised question there.


  • '18 '17 '16

    @ADCGrey He’s referring to a specific unit in V-3 called a Coastal Defence Ship. It’s basically an old Battleship that still has some punch but also a limited range. Nations used them for coastal defence since they weren’t very useful on long journeys.

    I use the Nevada Class for most of my CDS’s.
    For Germany and Italy I use the Schleswig Holstein
    For Japan it’s the Fuso Early war battleship;

    Most of the CDS’s in the opening setup belong to the neutrals. If you’re using white for all of them then the Nevada Class has them in white. The only reason I have them for other nations is if they influence a neutral into joining them or they switch to Germany or UK because they were attacked by the other side.

  • 2023 '22 '20

    Thank you very much.

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