• '19

    Having studied the released beta rules for V3 for some time I still find there to be some ambiguity with the rules regarding submarines, specifically, how to kill them.


    1. “Submarines may not be Attacked unless the Attacker has an aircraft on Maritime
      Air Patrol.”


    1. “Submarines have First Strike unless the Enemy has a Destroyer present.”

    What is the point of “A destroyer may pair 1:1 with aircraft on Maritime Air Patrol to participate in an Attack on a submarine.” if it’s only the Maritime Air Patrol that prevents submarines from declining combat?

    I think other surface warships should at least be able to attempt an attacking roll against the submarines (providing they’re backed by Maritime Air Patrol) even if the surviving submarines opt to then just submerge instead of firing defensively.


  • '18 '17 '16

    The designers of the game are giving the other side a better chance to kill subs. It’s almost impossible to chase them down so giving the planes on Maritime Air Patrol and extra die (Destroyer) gives them a better chance at killing the sub before it submerges. The new rules make it much more difficult to catch them with carrier based planes and escorts having to be in the same zone as the raiding subs so it was necessary to give them some help. It’s going to take some creativity and resources on the part of the British to keep from getting raped by German subs. It may be that they will need to develop ASW technology if Germany goes hard on the sub strategy.

  • '19

    @GeneralHandGrenade Thanks, I was actually hoping you would reply here as you have a lot more insight into why these rules are the way they are now.

    I like that it is intended as a bonus, but it reads like a massive penalty. If it’s the Maritime Air Patrol that prevents Submarines from declining combat outright, I don’t see what stops you from throwing something heavier, even a Light Cruiser at the Submarine. and forcing it to endure a better dice roll before submerging. Again, because the Maritime Air Patrol already prevented it from declining combat.

    How I’m interpreting the rule also makes historical sense, as WW2 submarines were really more just submersibles, operating on the surface most of the time.

  • '18 '17 '16

    The main way of hunting subs was by spotting them from the air. The reason for the MAP is that you’re not just flying from one zone to the next, you are flying in one zone in a search pattern and that is going to consume your fuel like you were flying 4 zones (which is what the planes fly in the game). Radar wasn’t really developed until later in the war and it was in it’s infancy so not all that effective yet.

  • '19

    @GeneralHandGrenade The end of your “Misunderstood Rules” video reminded me of this discussion.

    Upon reflection, I think what I was really getting at with the way the beta rules are written is that they never explicitly state that surface warships other than Destroyers cannot attack submarines with the help of an aircraft on MAP. It is only implied that other ships cannot do this.

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