Italy Economy

@Chris_Henry

Only 7 income a turn until Italy declares war on a Major Power, or Italy gets war declared upon them after having declared war on a minor power.

You may have overlooked this from page 23 of the rulebook, Chris.

5.1 Reduced Income: A nation at peace has often reduced income when not at war.
Nations start with different income levels based on their historical level of military expenditures.

And then this from the Italian reference card;

War Status. At peace with all nations. Free to declare war.

It shows the Wartime income as 10. They don’t get that until at war.

@GeneralHandGrenade said in Italy Economy:

It shows the Wartime income as 10. They don’t get that until at war.

They don’t get that until at war [with a major power].

If they received wartime income when at war with any nation then they would have no incentive to eliminate Abyssinia. So, as the rules state in ANOTHER section, nations are considered neutral unless at war with a MAJOR power.

Not only is the rule book in desperate need of a re-write, but it literally contradicts itself (by saying Italy is at peace with all nations) and requires people to scour the rulebook for rules.

For example, on the French National Reference sheet it has no limitations for France to declare war on, say, Japan. However, reading ONE sentence in the rule book clarified that Allied powers must be at full income to declare war.

Rulebooks for Grand Strategy board games ought to be written similar to legal documents. This includes references within rules to other rules. It is no wonder that @Chris_Henry may have overlooked a rule or two in the convoluted, contradictory, ill-structured rulebook.

I mean no offence to the creators of the game, I certainly could not create and balance a game as vast as Global War 1936. I simply would like to provide constructive criticism (assuming the creator even reads these forums). I hope that when the (much anticipated) V.3 rules are released that I could perhaps provide some constructive criticism.

@mrgoatcheese said in Italy Economy:

They don’t get that until at war

That isn’t a quote from the rulebook that was me in my own words. I didn’t put “at war with a major power” because it had already been correctly stated earlier by you in this thread.

This is a quote from the Italy reference sheet;
1936: Italy is already at war with Abyssinia and does not
have to declare war on that country and thus does not trigger
a British /French income increase.

All of the information is there it takes a lot of effort to put it together. I agree with you that it needs to be re-written to make it easier to understand. That’s why I’ve focused my efforts to pointing out where clarifications need to be made. Having said that this rule is pretty easy to decipher. I wish you could just go one place and find the answers that you are looking for, but the reality is you need to check the rulebook and the reference sheets simultaneously a lot for an answer.
I used to think that the A&A 1940 rulebooks were a mess and that it was a pain to have to flip to many sections to find one answer. I was forced to do it over and over again to answer questions for my subscribers and so it got easier and easier to find answers quickly. The sad fact is that it takes a lot of research to learn the rules to these large scale games. Hopefully the next edition of these rules will be better but even if they’re twice as good it will still take an extraordinary amount of research to master the rules. The real trick I have found is to learn where is the most likely place to find each particular rule and if it isn’t there then what’s your second guess. Hint* it isn’t necessarily the most logical place, that’s where the research and repetition comes in. That’s what it takes to find that ONE sentence that states the rule you’re looking for.

@Chris_Henry

They would not get their wartime income as they are not at war with a major power. You are only considered at “war” once you’re at war with a major power. That should be explained in the diplomatic section (third chapter?) of the rulebook. I’m too busy to look it up right now.

So, for example, the Japanese do not get their wartime income bonuses for holding Chinese land UNTIL they are at war with a MAJOR POWER. Same goes for the Dutch East Indies.

The Ruskies have the “Sleeping Bear” rule as to allow them to declare war in January 1939.

The Italians have no restriction for war, only the Allies and Comintern do. There is an Allied War Penalty designed to prevent the Allies gaming the system and achieving their full income too early. The Axis have no such penalty. The Allies war penalty is so restrictive that if an Axis power never DECLARES war then the Allies can never declare war on them. However, the Soviets can just Yeet at you but at their own risk.

So to summarize: Italy declaring war on any minor power (including Greece) would not cast Italy into “war” and also Italy would not receive their “wartime bonus income”. In fact, that very declaration would allow the Allies to declare war on Italy and seize the initiative. So perhaps it isn’t the best idea. Italy can instead project threat because Italy cannot be declared war upon by the ALLIES before Italy declares war (upon anyone).

I hope this helps and I’d be happy to elaborate and discuss more if you would like,

All the best,
MrGoatCheese

I think you are getting the rules for each power confused with the universal rule.

5.5 The Ability to Declare War: Each nation has different conditions under which it can declare war which are listed on their National Reference Sheet. In some cases, the nation only needs to reach its full Wartime Income level. In other cases there are more conditions to be met. Once you are able to declare war you may do so at any time, even during another player’s turn.

Specific to your question, Italy does not have any conditions to meet prior to it declaring war. Italy is able to declare war against the following at the beginning of the game (per their reference sheet):

• Britain, France, Soviet Union, USA, Nationalist China, Communist China
• Austria & Czechoslovakia
  -But they would fight back - and become British minor allies.
• Any Minor Country

Do not confuse this with the restrictions placed on the Allies
e.g. the British Commonwealth
Britain May Declare War on:

• Any Minor Nation
  -Yes (10 IPP penalty*) once at full production
• The Axis
  -Yes, Once Britain reaches full production. It cannot declare war on an Axis power that has not yet declared war on another nation during the game.
• The Comintern
  -Yes, but only if the USA is at war with the Comintern.

In conclusion, Italy may declare war at anytime. Until it is at war, it collects peacetime income.
Remember that this is an asymmetrical game, not all rules are shared by all players/ some players have exceptions.

@Chris_Henry

All I meant was that you don’t get your wartime bonus income until at war with a major power. You would get the value of the land you take. So, Japan would get +2 for Nanking but not the +1 bonus until at war with a major power.

@mrgoatcheese Italy does have an independent reason for invading Abyssinia: Italy gets two potential VPs for controlling up to 2 new territories at the end of the game. Abyssinia would be 1, and Albania another. In both cases, those territories would be taken without subjecting Italy to having war declared on it by the Allies, and Italy could theoretically sit tight until the end of the game and collect those two VPs.

@Chris_Henry and then the 4th by just spending their 7 IPPs to spend BBs the rest of the game!

@cdatkins74

I know. I said that if being at war with Abyssinia meant that Italy was at “war” and therefore received their “wartime income”, THEN Italy would have no incentive to attack. Because if they attacked and won then they would cease to be at “war” and would go back down to “peacetime income”. To counter this, I assume the creator made the rule that one must be at war with a Major Power to receive “wartime income”.

I believe “wartime income” should be changed to “Total Mobilization”, or “Total War Economy”, or something of the sort as to avoid confusion.

Heck, perhaps there should be three levels of income. Peacetime (limited troop types can be built), wartime (all troops can be built but you’re not at total war and don’t yet receive “wartime economy” or what I proposed to be “Total War Economy” income bonuses), and “Total War Economy” (you can build anything and receive wartime bonus income).