Make paratrooper unit standard in 1940 Global Bal Mod


  • 2019

    I propose adding paratroopers as standard units to Global 1940 Bal Mod, just like marines and not as tech R&D. Paratroopers are specially trained units, like marines, but didn’t require advanced R&D to develop in real life. The Germans invaded Crete with paratroopers in May 1941. Paratrooper units would be more universally playable than marines, which are only useful for a few countries, such as Italy in the Med and Japan and the U.S. in the Pacific. 1940 BM adds more National Objectives related to the Med islands. If UK or Italy controls the Med, its hard for the other power to break in. Paratroopers would be very useful in contesting the Med. But paratroopers could also be used in land-based campaigns and in Sea Lion. This could have a significant effect on regular game play. Has anyone used paratroopers in games using R&D tech?


  • 2019 2018 2017 '16

    @FMErwinRommel i like your idea of a paratrooper unit.
    But i also have to tell you, that there is nothing in the meds wich a Marine can’t achieve.
    Load it on a BB/CR and drop it off the desired island.

    The Marine is a very uniqe unit and i start to use it more and more in my games.
    Since the PT will not come with a special ability other then get carried arround, it will be very difficult to get a new unit such as the PT officially on the board.

    I for my self would not immediately reject a thought about a PT.
    Therefore a solution i would have in mind is to make a Marine unit transportable via a Ftr as well.

    Only to add a little bit of extra spice if desired by Settings in the game option on aaa, or as a HR for Live Games.

    It needs to be playtested of course.
    Just my few thoughts for this topic.

    Best regards
    AetV


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    Do all countries get this marine piece in game ?

    If they all get a marine then have a bomber be able to carry a marine. Not figs. This is getting out of hand imo.

    BARNEY.

    You testing a paratrooper in your triplea game ?


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @SS-GEN

    yea it’s a little different than the oob tech. It uses an “Elite” which combines the marine and para unit. Also an “Air Transport”.

    Elite is a A2 D2 M1 +1M w/tank (can blitz with tank), C5 unit. It may be transported by Cruisers and Battleships on a 1:1 basis. It may be Air Transported into combat or ncm by Air transports on a 1:1 basis

    Air Transport is a A0 D0 M5 +1 w/AB C6 unit. It may transport Elite units in either combat move or ncm on a 1:1 basis. May be taken as casualty.

    Re @FMErwinRommel’s idea, if ones opponent agrees, then just edit the para tech for everybody and see how it goes. As AetV says you’d want to test it.

    personally wouldn’t like the marine on the ftr though. Although BBs and CAs didn’t have regiment sized Marines, they did haul some around, so it’s not completely ahistorical. Just my opinion though 🙂


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    Ya I was gonna mention using an Elite (marine) for all and maybe a paratrooper too with adding s air transport plane. Each country Capital should start with an air transport too.



  • I’ve never really thought about paratroopers as its own figure but I am intrigued. However, I have made some changes to the paratrooper tech. Basically if you have the tech you roll a dice at the start of your turn, and the result is how many paradrops you can make that turn. A paradrop consists of 1 Infantry that can move two over any territory or SZ(being carried by a bomber is historically inaccurate) but it must end its move in a hostile territory. The infantry unit now attacks at 2. I’m sure you could adapt this for a unique unit but I’ll have to think about it some more.



  • Sorry, I forgot to say that paradrops are subject to AA gun fire


  • 2019 2017 '16

    I didn’t see this thread when it was created.

    This is a change I would be in favour of. It is much more historical this way. Paratroopers were specially trained units so a higher price makes sense. As opposed to the tech which makes every inf a potential paratrooper. Got to say that I do prefer the automatic air transport in G40. Or make a special unit for air transport as exists in some other (non-A&A) maps, so long as the expense isn’t prohibitive. I don’t much like the being carried in a bomber idea from earlier maps. Paratroops did meet up with other troops (hopefully soon) and fought as per normal so artillery bonuses should still apply.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I would prefer that Airborne units have elite weapons and short supplies ( short duration think). As a result one bomber dropping such a unit, that unit attacks at 3 in the 1st round, 2 in round 2 and 1 the rest of the rounds. You can have a limited number of such units or based on Historical, or based on the IPC you spent raising these units.

    Cost to upgrade one infantry unit to airborne=2-3 IPC… off top of head each nation can have 3-6 units

    Germany 6
    Japan 5
    Italy 3
    USSR 3
    UK 4
    USA 6
    France 1 or Anzac 1


  • 2019 2017 '16

    Wow. You really know how to confuse things. Surely resupply of the paratroopers is abstracted by the need to also attack the territory overland or amphibiously. Are you saying that you want to remove that rule?


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    LOL I think he wants rule just saying the longer a paratrooper is alone less supply he has.

    Normal Inf
    C3 A1 2.67 3 rounds = 8.01

    C3 + 1 = C4 A3 4.50 A2 3.00 A1 1.50 3 rounds = 9.00
    C3 + 2 = C5 A3 2.88 A2 1.92 A1 .96 3 rounds = 5.76

    Flat C3 for an Airborne.
    C3 A2 5.33 A1 2.67 A1 2.67 3 rounds = 10.67
    This would be the simple way. Not a fan of a bomber
    moving 6 as an transport plane but its your game.


  • 2019 2017 '16

    @SS-GEN said in Make paratrooper unit standard in 1940 Global Bal Mod:

    LOL I think he wants rule just saying the longer a paratrooper is alone less supply he has.

    Umm, I’m confused by this comment.

    If the paratroop resupply is done by the other troops meeting up with them there is no way possible for them to be alone.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @simon33 My reply was based on Paratroopers landing alone with no other troops moving into the same territory that turn.
    I can see the confusion there if I got it right.
    Its like.
    2 Paratroopers drop with 2 art moving into same territory or Amp landing and yes the Paratroopers will actually get the +1 attack for all rounds.
    1 Paratrooper A2 first round only +1 ( with 1 Art ) = Attack @3 first round. Attack @2 2nd round. Attack @2 3rd round and on.
    IL’s way
    1 Paratrooper A3 first round only +1 ( with 1 art ) = Attack @4 first round only. Attack @3 2nd round , 3rd round A@2.
    1 Paratrooper A3 first round only ( no Art ) = Attack @3 first round, Attack @2 2nd round and Attack @1 3rd round.


  • 2019 2018 2017 '16

    @SS-GEN @simon33 @Imperious-Leader , if in any case a paratrooper should only have a +2 in the first round, after that the Moment of surprise has vanished and he will attack as a reg Inf. @1 only and @2 paired with arty.
    That would make more sense to me according to the map.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    True. This is based on what game you have and your paratrooper values. Some games give a paratrooper +1 Attack first round only on a landing.


  • 2019 2017 '16

    @SS-GEN said in Make paratrooper unit standard in 1940 Global Bal Mod:

    @simon33 My reply was based on Paratroopers landing alone with no other troops moving into the same territory that turn.
    I can see the confusion there if I got it right.

    The current rule is that units have to move in by other means. I did question if he was saying to remove that rule. I for one wouldn’t be a fan of such a change.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @simon33 said

    The current rule is that units have to move in by other means. I did question if he was saying to remove that rule. I for one wouldn’t be a fan of such a change.

    Other means are ground troops and or Amphibious landings ?


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @aequitas-et-veritas Well then there is no real benefit at all! Attacking at 2 in the first round only is not any real need for this unit. Nations train these elite units for years and once they are gone , its hard to reform from cadre. The value of the paratrooper can not be dismissed as a +1 first round only nonsense. I still prefer a 3,2,1+ deal.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @Imperious-Leader said in Make paratrooper unit standard in 1940 Global Bal Mod:

    @aequitas-et-veritas Well then there is no real benefit at all! Attacking at 2 in the first round only is not any real need for this unit. Nations train these elite units for years and once they are gone , its hard to reform from cadre. The value of the paratrooper can not be dismissed as a +1 first round only nonsense. I still prefer a 3,2,1+ deal.

    Does this include with a art boosting attack +1 to 4,3,2 ?
    Or paratroopers only don’t get boost ?


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    Ha. Most wont agree but I have D12
    Inf A2 D4
    Par A3 D4 FSR only A2 D4
    Elite A4 D2
    I may have to look at lowering elites
    You can transport elites too. Just trying to get a 3 different combo for certain situations
    Also you can only buy 2 of each ( para or elite ) or 1 of each per turn so there’s no over kill


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    IL way is no bonus for artillery, unless its downgraded to infantry. +3 first round ( surprise and elite weapons) +2 second round ( running out of supplies, but still potent), and+1 rest of rounds. The idea is dropping them farther than adjacent areas so artillery wont be a factor or bonus.

    Cost to upgrade from infantry already built should be 2 IPC and limits either based on totals per side being equal, or Historical ( somewhat balanced), or limited by bombers, or IPC ( each 10 IPC can raise 1 paratrooper-example)


  • 2019 2018 2017 '16

    @Imperious-Leader said in Make paratrooper unit standard in 1940 Global Bal Mod:

    @aequitas-et-veritas Well then there is no real benefit at all! Attacking at 2 in the first round only is not any real need for this unit. Nations train these elite units for years and once they are gone , its hard to reform from cadre. The value of the paratrooper can not be dismissed as a +1 first round only nonsense. I still prefer a 3,2,1+ deal.

    My statement was Paras attack @3 Round 1 and then become a straight Inf and attack @1 and later can be paired with Arty like an Inf and attack @2.

    But I start to like your idea of an 3,2,1.
    Best example was the attack on Eben-Emael where German Paras attacked a fortress.
    The longer the fight took place the more their attacking moral/power swindeled down.
    So ya, you might be on the right track with 3,2,1.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    Thanks IL. Gonna look further into this.
    D12
    Para 3,2,1
    Elite 4,3,2
    No art support period. Cost 2 icps to upgrade inf max 2 per turn

    Ha ha. If Battleships and Cruisers shore shots give the para a +1 on Attack FSR only. Lol


  • 2019

    Thanks for the input guys, but most of this discussion is far to complex to be practical. My original thought was that paratroopers would be very useful to Euro Axis to take Med islands when Allies control the Med and Axis can’t build transports that will survive before they can make an amphib attack. Also helpful for both Japan and Allies taking Pacific islands. I just read the rule book that says paratroopers can operate with land attack or amphib attack. If paratroopers can’t take an island by themselves, but still require amphib landing, then there’s not much benefit. My idea was to avoid the transport or marine on cruiser. Assuming air support for amphib landing, the paratrooper power level isn’t so important. Paratroopers would provide a stronger garrison or take hits against a big garrison.


  • 2019 2017 '16

    Even though paratroopers without amphibious or overland support does have historical precedent such as Crete, the degree of abstraction in axis and allies makes it impractical to stimulate this. I feel it would add negative value. If realism really bothers you, an air transport unit would be the first place I would go.


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