@barnee Thank you very much Barnee. This is the first time this situation has come up, so we wanted to do it right.
German airbase in Holland r1
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I have thought about an idea for Germany, which I haven’t tried yet, but probably will. The basic idea is to make the British have to choose between a much needed Taranto and wiping out Bismarck. With a standard aircraft carrier buy (along with either 2 transports or 1 sub and 1 destroyer) for Germany in r1, UK can usually easily choose both.
With an airbase and 3 fighters in Holland/Belgium, they simply shouldn’t be able to do both. Germany should of course have landed atleast 1 fighter in S Italy (after for instance strafing Yugoslavia), so that 3 fighters can be scrambled in both places. I also intend to attack sz 110 with 2 subs in order to get more fodder and save valuable Luftwaffe. I think the good division of airforce then should be 2 figs, 2 tacs and 1 bb in both sz110 and 111 instead of the normal 3 figs and 3 tacs in sz 110 and 1 fig, 1 tac and 2 bbs in sz 111. With the two extra subs winging Bismarck, that should be enough force to dissuade UK from scrambling or lose heavily if they do.
If UK then goes heavy on Bismarck, I avoid scrambling and salute the sunken ship for it’s heroic feat, while Italy goes crazy in the Mediterranean.
Should be worth 15 IPC if it works as I think it will. The airbase of course is inflexible, but still has it’s strategic merits. No need for an airbase in Normandy (or even to take Normandy at all) for instance, but bombers can have the same intimidating effect on the Atlantic from Holland, while also being closer to the other fronts.
I’m sure this has been tried, but did anyone live to tell about it? If so, please do. ;-)
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Hi trulpen. Welcome to the boards
I remember people talking about a Holland AB but not the specifics. You could do a “Holland Airbase” search and see what comes up.
As far as saving the BB, a lot of people will use it to strafe SZ 111 and retreat it to 112.
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Thanks for the reply and welcome!
I did a search earlier and didn’t find anything, but will search some more.
The downside with taking the bs to 111 is of course losing planes in 110. I reckon Germany needs to hit both spots pretty hard.
Maybe it works with only 1-2 subs and a lot of Luftwaffe for 110? All that is needed is that UK declines the scramble.
Interesting idea with a strafe in 111. Unfortunate if it gets stuck, becoming a sitting duck. Otherwise Britain still has a damaged bs left, but I guess the idea is to take it out next round before it’s gotten repaired?
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Found something interesting:
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/28213/holland-airbase-before-sealion/6
I’m bound to agree with the strafe strategy and ac buy seems better, although I like the idea of Britain having to make a pretty tough choice.
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The players who use this against me take Normandy on G1 and then put the airbase there, to pair with the existing factory and NB. The battleship usually ends up getting destroyed if it sallies but that seems necessary to dissuade a scramble during the opener.
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@taamvan Then it’s an AB in Normandy G2, right? Does make Normandy an even juicier target for the Allies, while doing the same job as in Holland, except for where the aircraft is stationed, of course.
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@trulpen tue question behind all this is:
Is it really worth it, to put all that effort and resources for one single BB in?
Or is it more like Cpt. Miller states in SPR:
Yeah, all for one single man.The G BB has a Task, that point is clear.
It depends on you as GPlayer if it fills the task to the fullest!Help destroying the RN and protecting the Kriegsmarine to the bitter end to folk and fatherland!!
If you are planning on saving the BB for the purpose of another Task, then you should Strafe sz111 with BB/1×Ftr/1×TacB/2×SS and 1xBmbr only.
Retreat after one round of combat.
Your Pruchase for this case should be:
1xDD, 1xSS, 1xCV placed in sz112.
And land your remaing planes accordingly to max out the protection for the Kriegsmarine.But!:
To buy an AB for a single BB in Holland makes no sense and has no gain nor benefits.Why?:
The US will come, sooner or later.
-you as Gplayer will lose any Navy build race against the US and US/UK combined.- you will very likely lose that AB to the US/UK and they will have a way better use for that then G will ever have.
-you are comming short on eastern front b/c 15ipc’s are missing there.
15 ipc equal= two Arms plus Inf.
Or 3 Mech and an Inf.
Or a Bmbr plus Inf.
It’ll cost you flexabilty and power of your punch on Moscow.
The AB can be bmbd by US and your Fleet be taken out via UK by a 1-2 punch.
An AB also means that at up to three Ftrs will be missing on E-front, five planes if you have a CV loaded.
You may playtest an AB buy in your group and may have some success, but in all actuallty it will not become a solid strategy.
Just some food for thoughts.
- you will very likely lose that AB to the US/UK and they will have a way better use for that then G will ever have.
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@aequitas-et-veritas said in German airbase in Holland r1:
in all actuallty it will not become a solid strategy
I definitely agree with you. The rationale is to buy an AC instead. So much more flexible and useful.
The main point though of the AB is not to save the BS 100 %, but to make the British suffer if they go after it. A heavy hit on Bismarck dissuades scrambling and it will sink, but then Taranto is off.
If rather Taranto is on, then sinking Bismarck is off. Bissy can then sneak into sz 112 or 113 and get repaired for G3. With the grand bulk of the British navy already safely contained on the bottom of the ocean.
Doing the strafe on sz 111 is a great sneaky move, but the downside is that there’ll be fleet left to hunt down in G2.
But not having that AC will make shuffling around transports and protecting 112 less easy. It’s a great ship to have in the short term.
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@trulpen I agree as well. I don’t think the base or sacrificing the BC are good moves. I also shy away from the CV with germany as it needs fighters to power–buying a DD instead.
Kevin in Game 199 took advantage of the normandy airbase to boggle UK even though I did not taranto. He lost the BB but still had 3 ships and 3 TT tooling around under air cover that were enough to threaten UK and scotland and later take gibraltar. The normandy base let him add ships and potential landers to the fleet after the fall of france.
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@barnee said in German airbase in Holland r1:
As far as saving the BB, a lot of people will use it to strafe SZ 111 and retreat it to 112.
Does saving the BB cost too many planes? Is it an effective long end strat? is it only if you buy an ACC on G1?
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@Aaron_the_Warmonger said in German airbase in Holland r1:
Does saving the BB cost too many planes? Is it an effective long end strat? is it only if you buy an ACC on G1?
Shouldn’t cost any planes if you ask about the strafing. 2 subs enter sz 111 as well that can take extra hits. I guess 2 subs, 1 bs, 1 fig, 1 tac and 1 bb (on a note, I use this abbreviation for strategic bomber and bs for battleship) is sufficient for detering scrambling from Scotland and hopefully getting no more than 3 hits. Maybe even no strategic bomber. The British fleet gets about 2 hits with the fighter and 1,5 without it and the germans have a free soak on Bismarck and two sub fodders.
If you think about not having the bs in sz 110, then a 3 fig scramble against 3 fig, 3 tac and 1 bb is suicidal, especially if the ship hits can go to two subs. Might lose planes there, but the British lose more. Since there’s no bs in the English Channel, it can be good to shift over the bb from 111. Then Germany gets 5,5 hits round 1 while Britan gets 3,7 with the scramble and 1,7 without it. Also makes it less likely to fail (sic) with 4 or more hits in the 111 strafing.
The AC is optional, but considered a great buy for G1. It will be very useful in the coming rounds.
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@trulpen I really like the way you are thinking about how to pose thorny dilemmas for your opponent, but I don’t think spending 15 IPCs to save a damaged Battleship is ever a cost-effective play against an opponent who can calmly respond to an unexpected opening.
The thing is, Germany barely has a use for a battleship. They’re not going to get into round after round of combat where they can keep repairing it and leveraging the efficiency of the free hit. They’re not going to be doing much shore bombardment. At least in the Baltic / North Sea region, they’re not brushing up against factory limits; you can drop 20 units a turn. As aequitas points out, in the long run Germany isn’t a naval power anyway; the US & UK will eventually win control of the Atlantic Ocean; it’s just a matter of time.
Would I spend 5 IPCs to save a German BB? Sure. It’s of some use; it’s a large piece. But 15 IPCs is almost the whole cost of the BB. The Axis need to expand explosively in the first few turns in order to compete; any investments you make need to pay a very high interest rate. The interest rate on rescuing your BB is low because you buy the AB turn 1, then turn 2 the BB goes back into the Baltic to lick its wounds, then on G3 you get to move the BB somewhere. Where, exactly? To hit Leningrad? I mean, OK, maybe – but that does what, exactly…reduces your chances of losing an 8 IPC destroyer? And has decent odds of bombarding one Soviet infantry? So ballpark you’re earning something like 4 IPC + 2 IPC = 6 IPC, two turns later, on your 15 IPC airbase investment.
Meanwhile, if you just leave the BB alone, and let it stay wounded in the British sea zone, it’s got a 2/3 chance of killing a British destroyer or fighter – there’s your 6 IPCs right there.
So, yes, you’re laying an interesting trap for your opponents by inviting them to hit a BB that’s defended by 3 fighters and either come in too weak or pass up on the chance to do Taranto and hit mostly air…but if they see the trap and ignore your BB and do Taranto anyway, then you’ve spent 15 IPC to save a piece that’s really only worth about 10 IPCs at most to the German side.
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Actually that’s exactly what I think would happen! 😄
The choice is sort of empty, since I believe a Taranto is more important than taking out Bismarck. That’s what I would choose anyway. So I’m not really putting a tough choice to the table as I had hoped.
Better to just buy the AC and strafe 111 while wiping out 110. I like that route. The bs gets repaired already in G2 and hopefully there’ll be enough spike to hunt some remaining fleet while keeping the beady eyes set on Russia.
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If you hit SZ110 with 3ftr 3tac 2SB 2subs, it becomes very unlikely that the Brits will scramble even without the BB going there. The strafe of SZ111 is by far the best way to save the BB. It can go bad, but it’s the best option if you don’t want to sacrifice the BB. Sending a second sub to SZ111 is well worth it IMO.
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Good idea but not worth the 15 IPC. Taranto isn’t that bad for Axis and many top players avoid it and rather stack 92 in UK1 to preserve the fleet in sz98.
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@JDOW said in German airbase in Holland r1:
Good idea but not worth the 15 IPC. Taranto isn’t that bad for Axis and many top players avoid it and rather stack 92 in UK1 to preserve the fleet in sz98.
Very true. Not worth it, and has 0 long term value. Seems tempting, but not. Also not worth it, but is better, about G3 AB in yugo. I think you want the allies in the med compared to 110 or Norway as axis
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