Japan goes to south africa. Worth it?

  • '18

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    So, as you can see, the germans are under pressure. I’m only japan this game, and told my teammate i was going to let him just roll with the germans and see what happens. The germans have had pretty bad dice this game, and the japs have been nickled and dimed on ground units, but, with my clear gobs of navy, is it worth to send an expeditionary force with 2 troops and some ships to SZ72? this would threaten south africa and other UK territory? i was considering an all out navy rampage and knocking out ANZAC and UK fleets, and posturing in SZ6 to begin the pressure the US. 6 tanks a turn are now going to calcutta, and we’ve whittled them down fairly well, so i feel in a couple turns i should be able to knock them out. So, is it worth to divert to africa, or just pound the pacific into dust? I intend to have 4 full ACCs, at least 5 subs, at least 6 destroyers, and a battleship in SZ6 at the end of my next move (it is currently the USSSRs turn). thats a little more than half the navy.

  • To win, the Allies need to take all 3 capitals while the Axis merely need their victory cities, so… do the math. Can Japan take and hold for 1 turn their needed victory cities despite Germany’s failings?

    If so, don’t worry about S. Africa. You don’t need to do well on both sides of the board. Just well enough to keep the Allies busy while you win on the other side.

  • @Aaron_the_Warmonger

    I might move as much fleet as I could to the Caroline Islands, leaving your required blockers so they can’t occupy sz6 without getting kamikazed because it looks like you have enough assets to sink the U.S. fleet. That would force them to retreat to US coast and then you go kill ANZAC in peace and quiet.

    (I tried to do a battle calculator math to check but have a real hard time telling what the U.S. actually has at Hawaii)

  • '18

    @weddingsinger I particularly like ‘go kill ANZAC in peace and quiet’.

  • '18

    @weddingsinger the hawaiian sz has 3 ACCS, 5 fighters, 1 TB, 4DDs, 1 sub, 2 cruisers, 1BS. there are 3 fighters scramble ready on honolulu!

  • @Aaron_the_Warmonger

    Is UKPac at risk of breaking out? Will you be able to actually take it with those tanks? If not, infantry/art, keep shucking more guys south via transport. Or mechs to save money over tanks if you still want fast movers.

    Option #1 If UKPac isn’t breaking out, 2 more carriers. Japan’s greatest asset is its many, many planes. Use them. 32 ipcs gives you 4 more planes to attack with. Take Philippines fleet north, Malaya goes to Philippines, Sumatra fleet heads up to FiC which gets a naval base. That base let’s you reach Japan in 1 move, but also makes the transports worth while to bring guys south. If you won’t need to keep going back and forth with the transports, it’s still useful for bring all 6 transports into your Calcutta attack.

    Make sure the FiC fleet is just big enough to safely sink anything ANZAC has right now. Then you’ll have 6 carriers in your attack fleet and can annihilate anything the U.S. has or they retreat or they spend 100% of their IPCs on Pacific which is what Germany wants, too. After that any navy spending is just subs to soak hits or bombers for their reach.

    You’ve got 6 transports that can take more troops South to FiC for 6 more on the mainland every turn plus the 6 you can build.

    If Japan wanted to help out Germany, hit Russia, not South Africa. By the time you reach S. Africa, UK can easily have it well defended and for not much cost. Japaneses bombers in China can hit Moscow. More Japanese troops in the north and you can do a full invasion of Russia, Mongolia be darned.

    On the next turn, Philippines fleet can join Japan, they can all go to Caroline Islands to force U.S. to choose whether to help ANZAC or not. You should have enough to destroy them all, though, so the U.S. retreats. Not all your fleet goes south to ANZAC. Just enough to stay afloat, some planes to help take it. Bring a few transports. New Guinea can be taken to use for bombers. Get a naval base as quick as possible down there.

    But, mostly, go for the win with Japan.

  • Option #2 is to focus breaking Calcutta. Buys inf/art now, gather your transports, naval moves are the same as above. Still need a naval base for FiC. In 3/4 turns your buy on this turn arrives in Calcutta on 6 transports and whatever ground forces you built at your mainland factories.

    All your buys after this turn focus on U.S. fleet are I still say 2 carriers then bombers (useful for Calcutta, too) and then subs/destroyers

  • '18

    @weddingsinger said in Japan goes to south africa. Worth it?:


    Is UKPac at risk of breaking out? Will you be able to actually take it with those tanks?

    No. I plan to take out burma with artillery and infantry, and then bring 9 tanks, 1 infantry, and 1 artillary the following turn. that stack should be sufficient to win a counter attack. I plan to keep dropping2-4 infantry a turn from japan to korea and keep walking them around mongolia, and in 2 turns trigger the snow monkeys. i’m going bare minimum right now on calcutta in order to move the bulk of my navy towards sz6. I’m waiting to see if someone can change my mind on south africa, but i think putting the squeeze on the US is more important. I’m not sure i’m ready to give up the production on the naval base yet…

  • Where is the minor factory that belongs in union of South Africa?

    Like mentioned before. You need to decide which side of the board you can get the win on and attack accordingly.

  • @Aaron_the_Warmonger

    If you already have what you need for Calcutta you could start lining your transports and navy up to move on ANZAC, too, as quick as possible. Its not like Japan needs to keep sz6 to win, just a little bit of math to figure out how many inf you need to keep your capital (he’s only got like 1 transport)

    /helping in the Middle East would probably be more useful than S. Africa… dumping some planes there to support the Germans

  • '18

    @Paul-Thomas its lost to the sands of time. we always lose it, so now we don’t bother to put it on the board!

  • '19 '17 '16

    @Aaron_the_Warmonger said in Japan goes to south africa. Worth it?:

    is it worth to send an expeditionary force with 2 troops and some ships to SZ72?

    You need to send more than 2 troops, because the UK can build 3 and it takes 2 turns to get there. I’m not sure what else you would be doing as Japan with your navy. I’d think you’d also need to send some escorts, otherwise one sub can be built in the Red Sea and sink your force. Or fly a plane to Egypt then sink the force.

  • '19 '17 '16

    If UK_Pac are likely to be there for a while shouldn’t you be convoying off their income? I’d be inclined to strat bomb too but the convoying doesn’t have any downsides.

  • '18

    so, germany rolled very badly yet again, and was forced by necessity to go for the throat. 20190525_223126.jpg 20190525_223117.jpg

  • '18

    US only put down 2 surface warships. next attack s/b hawaiian sea zone. even if he puts every penny there, i think i have something like 92% win percent w/ 14 units left. Japan is light on ground troops, so i was thinking full advance to midway next turn.

  • '18

    @simon33 so, my plan was to send a TT, 2 troops, 2 cruisers, destroyer, and ACC w/ TB+F. my thought was that the UK could build 3 units, and i could hit it w/ 2 planes, 2 troops, and 2 bombardments, but germany is looking grim, so i’m just going to step up to blast hawaii. I’m pretty sure i’ve got calcutta in 2 turns, 3 at the latest.

  • you don’t have a navalbase near burma, so that has to be built. However, uk can always then react by sending a single ship to 72, land his planes in egypt (if he has an airbase there) and build 3 units in S/A. Since you can’t hit it on the second turn, he can build 3 more units in S/A and fly at least 5 planes there from egypt. This means that he has 11 defenders against your 2 landunits and 2 fighters. He also has enough planes and ships to actually kill the navy you send as japan.

    It sounds like a suicide mission with 0% chanse of success to me.

  • 2023 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16

    Taking South Africa in Global as Japan is a very, very niche play. It might make sense if Britain fell to Sea Lion, so that the South Africa factory is temporarily inactive – then you might want to seize it before Britain can build defenses there, with the idea of helping Italy turn into a monster and permanently keeping Egypt / Iraq / Persia.

    But if you do Sea Lion, then typically Russia will be a monster and you will have trouble holding Romania and Poland as Germany, let alone the Middle East. Also, typically when Sea Lion is an option, Britain has done the Taranto raid against Italy, so Italy is not really strong enough to sweep through the Middle East even with no opposition from South Africa.

    So really taking South Africa is a response to an Allied blunder – it’s handy if you can get it on the cheap, but it’s too far away and too strategically irrelevant to make a serious investment in it. It’s not a victory city, it’s rarely essential to taking or holding any other victory cities, it’s not worth a ton of cash, and it’s not immediately useful for securing a ton of cash. I think the main reason people like to threaten it is because they feel like a badass going so deep into British territory, but it’s not actually a reasonable strategy in 99% of games.

  • '18

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    well, i got my friends to push through 2 japanese turns… germany is pulling back, but are getting close to being able to push back again, and japan has open field running to the middle east and is throttling ANZAC. looking good for the Axis!

  • '21 '20 '18 '17

    Dave occasionally diverts a Japanese fleet to SA, but probably not one that can withstand a big attack, and not with the presence USA is showing. With some VCs (we mod SA as a VC, Mark Movel’s and YGs VC make certain areas more important than OOB) it changes the allied priorities and if Japan is raging then at some point they have almost 80+ income and can take more–to win a game where Germany is about to die or fails to take moscow.

    As Japan, you should never leave SZ 6 for the taking, because it paralyzes your ability to lay new forces on the board. So any plan to go around the bend (SZ 37) needs to watch USA carefully and have some or all the ships return to Philippines/SZ 6/Inland Seas. If USA is KGF, then Japan can run wild and smash India and ANZAC pretty easily–its not hard to get 6VC this way and pressuring ANZAC and preventing it from growing is a pretty strong move once you have the money in hand.

  • '19 '17 '16

    @taamvan said in Japan goes to south africa. Worth it?:

    As Japan, you should never leave SZ 6 for the taking

    I don’t completely agree. So long as you can reclaim it, it’s perfectly fine to run to the money islands/India (hopefully not 3 turns away). You can use the Kamis and air to force them to run back to Midway usually.

  • @Aaron_the_Warmonger Nice! The allies are in trouble - Japan is a monster! I’d suggest US making a move into Norway then Sweden (USA) followed by a major industrial complex - focus 100% on Europe for a few turns and see how it goes, capitalise on momentum and get the Russians on the offensive. It’s a desperation move to turn things around. Perhaps UK pulling the trigger on Turkey to spread the Axis focus?

  • '19 '17 '16

    @Juno You can’t put a major complex on a non original territory. Unless you’re playing 1st edition.

  • @simon33 Blast. Okay - thanks, yeah I am (likely) going by 1st edition - I got it a long time ago and going off the rules in the box. I’m out of touch with the newer editions.

    That limits the options. Hmmm…but makes sense. Without it the allied USA objective in Europe would be Norway, Norway, Norway, every time.


  • '18

    @Juno its why we leave it in the hands of soviets… it gives them income (they have norway and finland for 11IPCs a turn) but it keeps 6 US tanks a turn from pummelling my teammate!

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