Can scrambled air units fight in the land half of an amphibious assault?



  • p16:

    These air units can be scrambled to help friendly units in adjacent sea zones that have come under attack. They can also be scrambled to resist amphibious assaults from adjacent sea zones, whether or not the territory being assaulted is the territory containing the air base. They may defend against the enemy ships conducting the amphibious assault even if friendly ships are not present.
    

    There’s no glossary but here’s the best definition I could find of Amphibious Assault (p14):

    An amphibious assault takes place when you attack a coastal territory or island group from a sea zone by offloading land units from transports into that target territory (or make a joint attack with both seaborne units that are offloading and other units from one or more neighboring territories).
    

    Based on this definition the “amphibious assault” includes BOTH the sea battle AND the land battle. So, if air units can be scrambled to “resist amphibious assaults from adjacent sea zones”, it stands to follow that those planes be used for the land battle OR the sea battle?

    We’ve been playing such that the planes can ONLY be used in the naval battle, but the way the rules are written seems to allow those planes to fight in the costal land battle if they choose.

    Thoughts?



  • @jasonondesign “They can’t participate in any other battles during that turn, including a battle in the territory from which they were scrambled.” From the 2nd Edition rulebook. I’m not sure when this would occur anyway, because if the scramblers win then the attacking transports are sunk so there is no land battle, and if they lose the Scramblers are killed as they are defenders and cannot retreat.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 '13 Official Q&A TripleA Moderator

    @M36 said in Can scrambled air units fight in the land half of an amphibious assault?:

    I’m not sure when this would occur anyway, because if the scramblers win then the attacking transports are sunk so there is no land battle,

    There might be a land battle in case the target territory is attacked from an adjacent territory, too, and/or by planes that were not part of the pre Amphibious Assault’s sea battle.



  • @M36

    “They can’t participate in any other battles during that turn, including a battle in the territory from which they were scrambled.” From the 2nd Edition rulebook.

    That makes sense, but still doesn’t EXPLICITLY state they have to fight in the sea. There’s also this:

    They are treated as normal defending units in their sea zones

    1. An Amphibious Assault has two parts
    2. Scrambled plane can defend against an Amphibious Assault
    3. A scrambled plane can NOT fight on the land after fighting at the sea.

    But nowhere that I can find does it explicitly state that the defender has to choose to have the planes defend in the sea battle, so couldn’t they choose to fight in the land battle.

    I’m not sure when this would occur anyway, because if the scramblers win then the attacking transports are sunk so there is no land battle,

    Well, the example we had UK was landing with 2 cruisers and one transport in Denmark.

    Germany scrambled a plane from Western Germany. The cruiser had a choice of being in the sea battle and fighting the scrambled planes, or sending a barrage into the land battle.

    If they chose not to defend the transports, then the scrambled plane could easily destroy the transports, so they had to choose to defend the transports instead of sending a barrage.

    The scrambled plane probably couldn’t take out two cruisers, and the land assault half of the amphibious assault was pretty week, so Germany wanted to scramble the plans to repel the land half of the amphibious assault, which would have allowed them to easily hold Denmark (1 plane and 2 infantry defending against 1 tank and 1 infantry).

    We ruled that while the amphibious assault rules are not specific they certainly imply that the scrambled planes can ONLY fight in the nautical engagement, not on the second half of the amphibious assault.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 '13 Official Q&A TripleA Moderator

    @jasonondesign said in Can scrambled air units fight in the land half of an amphibious assault?:

    That makes sense, but still doesn’t EXPLICITLY state they have to fight in the sea.

    The decision to scramble is a decision to fight in the sea battle, explicitly stated in the Rulebook Pacific 1940.2, page 15, Scramble section, second paragraph:

    A quick reaction team of no more than 3 defending fighters and/or tactical bombers (strategic bombers can’t scramble) located on each island or coastal territory that has an operative air base can be scrambled to defend against attacks in the sea zones adjacent to those territories.

    @jasonondesign said in Can scrambled air units fight in the land half of an amphibious assault?:

    The cruiser had a choice of being in the sea battle and fighting the scrambled planes, or sending a barrage into the land battle.

    The cruiser has no choice. The scrambled fighter initiates a sea battle. The cruisers are part of the sea battle.

    What do you mean by “sending a barrage into the land battle”? Are you referring to offshore bombardment? That cannot be done because the cruisers are part of the sea battle.



  • @Panther Thank you! That’s what I was missing. Much appreciated. 🙂



  • Ah yes, I was not considering an attack from multiple territories. In any case the fighters may scramble for the sea battle or they may stay in the land territory and fight in that. They may not do both. As for the ships in previous versions of the game they could chose to fight in the naval engagement or bombard but in 1940 I am quite certain ships MUST all fight in any naval engagement first.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 '13 Official Q&A TripleA Moderator

    @M36 said in Can scrambled air units fight in the land half of an amphibious assault?:

    As for the ships in previous versions of the game they could chose to fight in the naval engagement or bombard but in 1940 I am quite certain ships MUST all fight in any naval engagement first.

    What versions are you referring to? In Classic, Revised, Anniversary, Spring 1942, 1942 SE, 1940_any_2nd ed. and 1941 every attacking ship is part of the sea battle. And that sea battle negates bombardment.



  • @Panther I believe this was the case in revised no? I no longer have this copy of the game, and it was many years ago that I played. Am I thinking of a house rule?



  • @M36 Yeah you’re right. Thanks. Maybe that was a house rule that we let people choose, but definitely in 1940 you can’t choose…


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 '13 Official Q&A TripleA Moderator

    @M36 said in Can scrambled air units fight in the land half of an amphibious assault?:

    @Panther I believe this was the case in revised no? I no longer have this copy of the game, and it was many years ago that I played. Am I thinking of a house rule?

    No, Revised is no exception here. You most likely recall a house rule.



  • @Panther
    I believe Xenos World at war allowed holding back ships for bombardment.



  • The confusion seems to be in you’re holding back naval ships for naval bombardment. The advantage about scrambling planes is that it forces the attacker to commit all their naval ships regardless if they want to or not. That’s why it is sometimes wise to scramble in a losing battle if the enemy is relying on bombardment for victory. The easiest situation would be when Japan invades the Philippine islands. If Japan was so aggressive that all they brought was two infantry with two cruisers as example. I would scramble the fighter in that situation because while I will lose the sea battle, if you choose to invade the island after the battle, you’re doing it without naval support which gives my defending infantry a better chance at winning.


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