Game 192; Whoops Dave Does it Again


  • 2020 2018 2017

    For game 192, I made Dave play the Axis. We agreed that they need a bid to gain the upper hand before the Allied economy comes to bear, so we decided to put 1 extra infantry on Japan, 1 on Manchuria, and 1 on France.

    Its easy to forget that all the Axis have to do to win is take Moscow. The same dynamics prevail in this game as the others

    Moscow is the only critical path, taking London harder and Washington impossible,
    All the Russia money gets chipped away no matter how well defended moscow is,
    Its more than 1 move by air for fighters to reach Moscow

    So how hard is this to do? Well, the Allies should start with a stiff opener–one that takes Manchuria, West Russia (the one with 1 inf 1 art 1 armor I forget its name) and SE Asia. The last one is hard for them to get back. This keeps Japan off balance, and Germany also needs 1-2 turns to reorganize and recover in this opener.

    Big mistake I made in this game was shifting my stack of Russian defenders and movers to the Caucasus. Not enough zombies survived the initial combat to dissuade an attack. All of my defenders died there, so the big zombie stack wasn’t between Moscow and the German reinforcements. Big Mistake.

    With the bid, Japan could take the center. China, Russia money, mostly taken. Germany only needs to run the gauntlet of zombies 1 time–if there is a huge stack of zombies in Moscow, that may dissuade an attack (which risks losing 1/3 of your units to a first strike), but those same zombies eat the irreplaceable and broke Russian garrison. The key to winning with Germany is that you can enter the territories near Moscow without eliminating the zombies, if the walls of zombies are modest, the Germans simply position within those walls, and crush Russia the old fashioned way (tanks move 2 through German controlled zones into the Moscow attack). A stronger move by Russia would have been to move back to Moscow, I still sense with the anemic income that I would have lost this game.

    Without the bid, Japan’s moves are more limited. They get 1 land wave, after that, peanuts. Russia can’t really deal with ANY Japan units and still have what they need to fend off the German tanks.

    I keep putting USA 100% pacific, but this is the wrong move. I do it because its fun to blow up Japan’s navy, which i did (BB and 3 TT). But that isnt a game changer for Moscow, pressure on Germany might be.

    Lessons Learned;
    Bias and Bid are smaller than predicted because all you have to do is kill Moscow, its 42.2 with some dancing involved.
    Techs mean little, avoiding the zombies is better than attacking them.
    US should concentrate on threatening Germany, this has some chance of diverting tanks away from moscow before the reckoning
    Fighter support heading for moscow doesn’t have any safe spots to transition to, that I can find, except the middle east, where you have 1 fighter total.



  • @taamvan said in Game 192; Whoops Dave Does it Again:

    For game 192, I made Dave play the Axis. We agreed that they need a bid to gain the upper hand before the Allied economy comes to bear, so we decided to put 1 extra infantry on Japan, 1 on Manchuria, and 1 on France.

    I think technically this is not a bid but an adjusted setup 🙂
    But thanks for posting!

    Question: how did you come to deceide on the location of these three ‘extra’ Axis units?
    Is a typical bid around 9 IPCs?


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @taamvan I think your mistake may have been actually taking the clay in Manchuria and SEA instead of just strafing them and leaving the Japanese to suffocate in a pile of Zombies.

    Plus, if you just strafed Manchuria, now Japan’s forced into a lose-lose situation. They can either waste their first big wave saving Manchuria from the Zombies (allowing the Siberians to reach Moscow in time for the final battle) or abandon Manchuria and defeat the main Soviet stack (a huge hit to their income for J2).

    Actually keeping your main stack in West Russia after R1 is probably bad too, just let the zombies defend the territory for you while you gather resources in preparation for the final battle.

    Zombies controlling originally Axis controlled territories is good for you, because it means you win if you trigger the Zombie Apocalypse.

    I think you have the Axis strategy mostly down though. Kill USSR ASAP to end the game. If you can actually get through the Zombies the Russians are just as frail as they are in 41 (yes, that 41)


  • 2020 2018 2017

    Yes sir, with the extra piece, I declined to hit Manchuria. SE Asia is actually cut off from the other two in this version, so by taking that (1 inf 1 art 1 fig) I actually held it for 2 turns (bc all Daves transports stuck to one zone for safety).

    The plane gets killed by amphib if that gets left behind, these battles seem too small to last multiple rounds…and even if you retreat, your units can still get killed by sea.

    Next time, most of the Russians will come home. Some would need to be broken off to recap caucasus and finland, that just dilutes my power. If there are a couple of zombie walls, thats good but if Germany can avoid them, Russia wont have the units or income to stop that. Your last point is your best one–if the Germans can get through the zombies without losing their spearhead, Russia is toast.


  • 2020 2019 2018

    Sorry, read your opening remark about “Well, the Allies should start with a stiff opener–one that takes Manchuria…” and assumed that’s what you had done in your game.

    I think it’s possible to engineer a strafe in Manchuria R1 as long as you bring the right combination of units.

    @taamvan said in Game 192; Whoops Dave Does it Again:

    Some would need to be broken off to recap caucasus and finland, that just dilutes my power.

    Finland? That should be pretty far from the top of your priority list. Leave Scandinavia/Karelia to UK.

    If there are a couple of zombie walls, thats good but if Germany can avoid them, Russia wont have the units or income to stop that.

    W. Russia and Ukraine are the only walls you should need. That shepherds the Germans into taking the Germany -> EE -> Karelia -> Archagel -> Moscow route, which is pitifully slow, provides little income, and is vulnerable to UK landings to cut off reinforcements.


  • 2020 2018 2017

    Apologies for being unclear. I also said “Finland” without reference to the board–I meant Karelia. Karelia and Caucasus is $4 not including potential bonuses…so cant just give up on it. Considering your comments and the need for every man Russia can spare, I may follow my Russian Maxim “Russian Counterattacks are tempting but dilute your power in the end analysis”

    Good call on pushing them north off the critical path. the 2/6 chance of a zombie first strike on attacker means that as few as 4-6 zombies can blunt an offensive.



  • Guys,

    Interesting to read about your experiences with the East Front battle in this version of Axis and Allies (AAZ).

    I was wondering: how does the (in-)famous Decoy Card play out here? When I first got the game I was under the impression you needed to have some units in the very territory you play this card on (in). But it turned out that you can play this card on ANY territory.
    As others have metioned earlier: there are two Axis powers, and three Allied nations. So it seems this card will overall benefit the Allies. As say UK can play this card ont the East Front while not having any units there.

    How did this card affect gameplay?

    .

    My remarks on DECOY TEAM being a bit too strong here:

    https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/32945/thoughts-on-the-scott-van-essen-lead-developer-for-aaz-interviews/19

    https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/32945/thoughts-on-the-scott-van-essen-lead-developer-for-aaz-interviews/25


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @taamvan said in Game 192; Whoops Dave Does it Again:

    Apologies for being unclear. I also said “Finland” without reference to the board–I meant Karelia. Karelia and Caucasus is $4 not including potential bonuses…so cant just give up on it. Considering your comments and the need for every man Russia can spare, I may follow my Russian Maxim “Russian Counterattacks are tempting but dilute your power in the end analysis”

    Ahh, Karelia is definitely a more logical target than Norway-Finland. I still wouldn’t recommend spending Russian troops there though. Karelia is reachable by sea, so leave it to UK/USA.

    Caucasus is definitely a critical point you need to retake. Not just to keep your income afloat, but also to keep the Axis Powers from linking up in the Middle East/China, which pretty much spells disaster for USSR.

    Good call on pushing them north off the critical path. the 2/6 chance of a zombie first strike on attacker means that as few as 4-6 zombies can blunt an offensive.

    That’s the strategy I’ve been using in my games (although I’ve only got like 25 or so in at this point, most of them solitaire).


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @thrasher1 said in Game 192; Whoops Dave Does it Again:

    Guys,

    Interesting to read about your experiences with the East Front battle in this version of Axis and Allies (AAZ).

    I was wondering: how does the (in-)famous Decoy Card play out here?

    You’ll have to remind me. Which one is “Decoy Team?” Is that the one that says something like:

    “Select a Territory with Zombies present. Move half of the Zombies from that territory to an adjacent one”

    If so, that’s easily the most game-breaking card for the Eastern Front. If the Allies draw it they can have an easier time creating the wall of Zombies I mentioned above (to shepherd the German Spearhead on a longer path to Moscow). On the other hand, if the Axis draw it they’ll be able to either dump Zombies straight into Moscow (seriously damaging its defenses) which also eliminates the only obstacle between 6-10 German Tanks/3+ FTR/BOMB (and accompanying INF) and a (comparatively) lightly defended Moscow.


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