• 88, when do you land in algeria initially? if you did it to me in usa 1 you would have to rebuild your entire fleet, thats gets expensive.

  • @critmonster:

    88, when do you land in algeria initially? if you did it to me in usa 1 you would have to rebuild your entire fleet, thats gets expensive.

    If the Germans attack the Eygypt SZ on G1 with the BB, then the UK can pull down its BB and trannies to Algeria on UK1, and US can join with trannies and DD on US1 (and the Russian’s SS comes over on R2 as well).  Germany can counter with air on G2, but they will probably lose a LOT of fighters doing so.  Also if the German altantic sub is still around after G1, the German counter on G2 is more effective and the move to algeria by UK/US is riskier.

    If Germany goes for Gilbralter with the BB on G1, or UK does not pull its navy down on UK1, then sending US forces to Algeria on US1 is suicide for that little US navy.

  • Crit- never checked this thread again, sorry no reply-

    Absolutely- I’d land round one if only confronted by 5 German Fighters and a Bomber. Battleship, Dest, 4 Trans, Sub vs. Luftwaffe? A great exchange. Considering I’d buy a U.S. Carrier/ 2 Transports + Dest from Panama for second wave, + 2 Transports/ 3 Inf + Arm for Britain UK1.

    Back to the battle- Germany gets 3 hits (BB, Russian sub, US Trans) vs Allies 2 hits (2 German Fighters) round 1
                               Germany gets 2 hits (2 Trans) vs Allies 2 hits (2 more German Fighters- ouch!) round 2
                               Germany gets 1 hit (remaining Trans) vs Allies 1 hit (last German Fighter- what have I done?) round 3
                               Germany gets 1 hit (US Dest) vs Allies 1 hit (Bomber dead, end of Luftwaffe, end of Germany, end of game)

    Facing me you would never have the Ukrainian Fighter if you were wondering why only 5 German Fighters. I’m an aggressive M-f-er with Russia. Dead Ukraine, dead W Russia, nice Armor reserve (3 Inf/ 3 Arm R1 purchase).

    I’m also assuming no bid. I never play with one (FTF player, my only PC’s at work, I like being employed so gaming bad idea). So unless you’re a wild man and leave Egypt alone, and bring your Med fleet + 1 Inf to Gibraltar, I’ll happily land in Algeria every time!  😛 😄

  • @88:

    Facing me you would never have the Ukrainian Fighter if you were wondering why only 5 German Fighters. I’m an aggressive M-f-er with Russia. Dead Ukraine, dead W Russia, nice Armor reserve (3 Inf/ 3 Arm R1 purchase).

    Hey, that’s my usual R1 move and purchase too!  I’ve even been known to go after Ukraine even if its reinforced with 1 German Inf from a bid…

  • Hey James- I’ve found that it’s quite rare on this site, but quite common at flames of europe. Makes me wonder…

    I love killing the German Fighter. To me it means a great deal for Germany’s long term outlook. When I play Germany if my opponent leaves the Ukraine I’m secretly ecstatic. Extra Fighter, Artillery, and Armor that I didn’t plan on.

    I understand the flip side- Russia loses hardware. That’s why you have to buy offense to back it up. And it’s a bad idea if you don’t plan on spending every available IPC and unit taking down Germany, because Russia will look pretty skinny after Germany takes back the Ukraine.

    The other thing I like about it is that it limits Germany’s options- they have to take back the Ukraine and usually have to spend significant resources to do so. That slows them down in the north.

    It also makes a couple other German attacks a little more dicey- for example, how many Fighters can afford to go against the British Battleship when you have only 5? Don’t you have to use at least 1 in the Ukraine to take it back? Now the Egypt attack is looking a little thin, etc.

    All of that having been said, I understand the benefits of not doing it as well- but for me it comes down to the death of a German Fighter.

  • What do you guys think about a purchase of 2 ICs for japan turn one?  One in french indo and the other in Manchura or kwang?  That means turn two you can immediately put out six tanks, just a thought.

  • I like the idea of 6 tanks to roll down the allies throat on J3 but I usually buy a couple of transports to clear off Japan.  Also I would wait to see how large a fight the UK is going to put up for control of India.  If they mildly reinforce it (Persian inf plus the fighter) without moving the Anglo Egypt forces east to help, i would take India and then put a factory there.  It just makes many options a lot easier.  However I a factory in Manchuria to ease the push on Russia is a solid idea

  • 1 IC on Turn 1, and some TRN.

    It keeps Japan flexible, and keeps the US honest…

    Also remember that 2 TRN can drop 33% MORE units than 1 IC in FIC, Kwang, or Manch, and only costs $1 more.  That TRN also has a defensive value if the US does a Big Gulp, and are not subject to free SBR’s…

    Japan DOES need at least 1 new IC, either on J1 or J2 in most cases.  Otherwise they will have serious build-limit issues…

  • Definitely. The ability to pick up Inf from the islands is critical. One Transport can’t do it. And you need to maximize the 8 units that Japan can create as soon as possible. It’s a balancing act, but you need to keep building until you have 2 ICs and 6-8 Transports, depending upon your goals and strategy- 4 Transports for the perpetual unloading of Japan, and several more to deal with island taking/ putting pressure on Africa etc.

  • I’ll be honest, I go for 5 TRN… 1 to island raid, 4 to empty Japan.  1 IC to start.

    And when I get close to where I am hitting a build limit with all ARM builds… well then it is about time I start building in one of those new IC’s I have taken, like Caucuses or Moscow 😛

  • 2 IC’s in J1 is not a good move, I think…

    1 of the 2 IC’s will be temting to attack for some allies.
    if J loses one of them? this means another turn to take it back and on the following turn the possibility to build there again…
    that’s 2 rounds of inactivity…

  • With Japan’s starting forces and with losing the Kwang TRN on UK1, 2 TRN’s are basically REQUIRED for Japan to be effective, which means the single IC purchase waits for J2 (unless you have a bid).

    The reason for this is simple… you build the two IC’s in J1.  OK.  2 IC’s, no combat units built, and only 2 units moved from Japan to Asia.  J2, you get to build at both of those IC’s, 3 units each, and you TRN 2 more unis from Japan.  Net after 2 turns:  10 units in Asia.

    Let’s go with the 1 IPC to Japan bid and look at 2 TRN and 1 IC…
    J1, you build the IC and 2 TRN, landing 2 units to Asia.
    J2, you build 3 units at your new IC, and TRN 6 units to Asia with your 3 TRN.  11 units to Asia, an extra 10%.

    But there is a further advantage.
    To get those 6 units BUILT in Asia, you have to both buy the IC and the units themsevles.  Going with all INF, to get those 10 units to Asia by the end of J2, you have to spend 48 IPC’s, and have emptied Japan.

    If you do the 1 IC and 2 TRN, you can raid units from Oki, Wake, and Phillipines, plus your starting 4 INF from Japan, and the 3 units you build at your new IC.  You spend 45 IPC’s to get 11 units to Asia.

    10% MORE units for 7% LESS money.

    That is a major advantage in the first 2 rounds of the game…

  • Caspian Sub ( http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Caspian_Sub/ ) policy paper 7 discusses this in detail and reaches the same conclusion: the 1 IC , 2 TRN J1 purchase is the best one, if you can get one IPC from a bid.

  • I did the 2 IC’s on the first turn and it turned out to be a set back.  You are significantly better off with the single IC and extra transport for the opening build.  This is true for a number of reasons.  Try the dual complexes for turn 1 and and you will get the feeling of anemia from lack of units and ability to move them.

  • Yep… Japan was unit starved for like 5 turns.

    Shame the Allies could not kill Germany in that time (that was my Pacific experiment game as I recall…)

  • I think the only thing Japan can do IF he wants to build 2 IC’s: go defensive for one or 2 turns.

    defend those newly build IC’s or you’ll lose them 😛

    (still think it’s a better idea to buy one IC and a transport)

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