Attacking an empty sea zone?

Assuming a J1 DOW and a Japanese fleet sitting on or around Hawaii, how many turns will it take for the US to neutralize Japan in the Pacific?  3?  4?  Its about the equivalent of waiting a few turns as Japan before the US can DOW.  The tradeoff is Japan gains very little economic advantage and just keeps the US busy in the Atlantic until Japan loses most of its fleet that it cannot replace.

@J-o-C I’ve been considering trying attacking the neutrals, mostly for the helluva it. Thanks for laying out thoughts. As far as multi-national forces sequenced, I’m considering sending in U.K. forced into Saudi’s Arabia if conditions permit. Also, ANZAC on Argentina As a capper, maybe Chile also but Argentina first.

Sweden would be tough to get as Allies unless already in Norway so might Axis taking it might the cost of opening Spain and Turkey and make you commit to invading Europe form the south, not necessarily a bad thing.

The prime response would be a couple of existing US fighters, but since you can’t stage them onto Canada or Iceland or SZ 102 until your 2nd turn, and then only at war (except for SZ 102, so J1) the only way for the UK to receive them would be for them to put a CV in SZ 109, which is dangerous.

The worst thing about a SeaLion threat is that UK needs all its fighters on 1 space, because it cannot defend Scotland and London and a fleet until it has several turns of buys.    This means only 3 scramblers, not the 6 scramblers.    And it means you can’t start an early fleet (say 1 CV and 1 DD in SZ 109) because the fighters will have to jump off once London is threatened, which leaves the fleet bare.

So that’s why CV in 102 is so nice, because its the only direct, safe intervention.  But since you don’t have a CV to start, you’d build US 1, head to SZ 102 US 2, and hope for a J3.  In every other case (J1, J2) you could just land on London as soon as you stage up, but that’d be Iceland US2, London US3.  And if they killed London, your only LZ is back on the carriers…

The are two plans at work here.

The strict neutral strategy should not work against a good player because of all the extra infantry (18+) that the Allies get. But those infantry take a while to get into battle. The troops is South America take at least a few turns to get into the fight if there are no transports handy in the Atlantic. It may even be a turn or two before all the extra income comes on line for the Allies as well. And the Axis get to decide when to attack the neutrals, so they have initiative. I have never seen the Allies attack strict neutrals.

As far a turn 1 attack by Japan on the U.S. - Japan can defend Hawaii and the DEI for a least a few turns from the Western Allies and the Americans. Japan can build a Aircraft Carrier turn 1 with a Transport. Attack Midway turn 1 with Infantry and Artillery. Attack American Fleet around Hawaii with 3 Fighters, 3 Tactical Bombers, 2 Bombers, and 1 Destroyer and 1 Submarine on J1. Turn 2 attack Hawaii with 2 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 3 Fighters and 3 Tactical Bombers. If any Destroyer or Submarine survived the turn 1 Assault on the sea zone around Hawaii they can help defend the fleet from the scrambling aircraft at Hawaii, or defend any American Assault on U.S. 2. There should be 4 Aircraft Carriers with planes and 0-3 support craft (Destroyers and Submarines). This should be more than enough to hold off American attack for a few turns. If there are any losses on the aircraft on any of the battles fly new planes to land on the Aircraft Carriers in the non-combat movement phase. The rest of the Japanese fleet, 2 transports, 2 Battleships, 2 Cruisers, 1 Destroyer and 1 Submarine can take Philippines turn 1 and can take Malaya turn 2. It can move on to capture the islands on turn 3 and later. Once the Philippines are taken, planes can be flown from China to cover the fleet at an airbase. The Japanese have enough fleet to match the British, Anzac and the Americans for at least a few turns. Japan does not have enough resources to fight China too while this is happening. So the Chinese will start producing 18 + income a turn and dominate the mainland. But this is the strategic problem Japan has always had. It has the initiative and not enough resources. IF you have to choose which Ally gets more money, choose the Chinese, as they cant leave China (except for Hong Kong and Burma).

All I ever see the Japanese do is build for a few turn or two, attack China turn 1 and 2, and then fight a traditional war against the DEI and try to hold on…

Thank you again.

@ShadowHAwk:

@aequitas:

90 % of the time I would attack a lone BB or a loaded/empty Carrier.

6 ipc’s vs 16 to 20?
Yeah I’m in!

It depends a lot where the BB or carrier is as well. Near a friendly naval base no point you damage the BB and then what. If it is not then you also force it to retreat.

Chances of a sub vs a BB are not that great, VS the carrier it is pretty ok ish.

Exactly, this is where I got my 90% from. It should be a good opportunity and not a suicide run.
The possibility to cause damage and not to drop water on a hot plate!

@aequitas:

90 % of the time I would attack a lone BB or a loaded/empty Carrier.

And sometimes the dices got their own way.

Never tell me the Odds! 🙂

Not sure. Both sides can easily benefit, but I’m not sure if one side will benefit more