Russia Needs a Commissar
PainState last edited by
Listen up and listen up good! Russia needs a new Commissar on how to deal with this German threat.
So, here is the chart you must memorize.
G1 DOW and they are at the gates of Moscow on R4 for a G5 assault
G2…R5…so a G6 Assault
G3…R6…so a G7 assault
Ok, I need a Commissar to stand up and tell me why we should not just turtle and hope RNG Jesus saves us.
Surely there is a plan of ATTACK to beat back the German horde invading us?
Iam going to just spit ball some ideas to spurn some conversation. See if your skulls of mush can come up with a good plan.
Iam going to make 2 assumptions on the German POV. Yeah, I know what an assumption is and can lead to.
#1 Germany does not want to assault Moscow with out cannon fodder INF/Mech INF. Germany hates taking Tank losses and do not get them started on losing planes.
#2 Germany does not want to take Moscow and then just lose it to a counter attack and not have a follow up force.
Top level idea, something to work on.
How about attacking them in force before Moscow, take out their INF/Mech Inf and make them pause at losing tanks. Then a grand plan of setting up Moscow with a counter attack in mind instead of pilling up the dudes 3inches tall on the game board on Moscow and just pray. For you guys on TripleA INF stacks of 25+ are around 3inches tall on the real game board.
Yeah, I hear you dude in the back row. I know Germany VS Russian has been discussed numerous times. Epic videos made of tactics to defend Moscow. Endless discussion across some beer with some fish and chips hashing this out.
But you know what, some lessons in life need to be constantly revisited and pounding into your head.
Just like my life lesson of not drinking 18 beers, 9 shots of whiskey, top it off with 3 cement mixer shots and then hit McDonalds on the way home. After a discussion with my toilet we hash it out and then for some stupid reason we are talking about the exact same think 2 weeks later.
So, Commissar give me some insight on how to make Russia the power house it should be and defeat the German horde.
I don’t have any useful thoughts to offer on the specific problem you describe – but your request for a good Commissar to handle the strategic menace to Moscow reminds me of an old thread in which a player had argued that Russia should abandon the East to Japan and concentrate all of its forces on a defense of the capital, to which I jokingly responded that this strategy had been advocated by an obscure Soviet general named Youstayin Moskowvich Izgudenof.
The main problem with the moscow battle is that it doesn’t matter if germany loses most of its forces taking it. That’s why its better to attack early on the odds than wait for more stuff. Once moscow is down there are plenty of money and factories to overwhelm UK West.
Here is the patch we will try in Game 191:
Reduce Leningrad, Caucasus, Volgograd and Moscow bonuses from 5 to 3 (bid equivalent = 20) these bonuses are excessive, too easy to achieve, and push the income flop too far in the Axis favor. Dave had $127 last game on G6 (this with saving some money)
Add 2 infantry, 1 armor, 1 fighter to urals (bid equivalent = 22) russia is too weak, overall. The bid doesnt need to go to teams that already have the local advantage–it should only go to Russia.
Even with these changes, I don’t think it will change which turn moscow falls—more would be needed.
If Germany keeps its troops together, there is no way that USSR can counter attack. End of story really.
Regarding Moscow falling G6, the allies need a plan to prevent this because it’s really hard to win if this happens. The normal plan is the allies, particularly UK, flying a bunch of fighters to Moscow, normally done out of the Middle East. Going via Scandinavia is also possible but a lot more difficult.
If Germany was able to even save up some IPC’s, i am really wondering what the ATL Allies did the whole Game?
Not much, as that was the primary intent of the Setting Sun concept–100% goes to the Pacific. KGF does too little too late to affect the timing of Moscow’s fall–it creates at most incidental pressure on Germany’s income and warfighting ability until the allies have a truly magnificent fleet and transports that can “go over the top”. I did do one circuit of the atlantic and one TT drop (1 CA 1 DD 1 SB 1 FIG 1 TT 1 INF 1 ARM), then all those forces went back the other direction, through the canal.
My plan does too little to protect Moscow AND the other 2 capitals on that board. Still, the playthrough helped me estimate what resources were overkill during my base plan; about 100 worth of US submarines and destroyers, most of the ANZAC spend, 2 UK TTS from atlantic to pacific, and 3 french ships that toured the planet. Its less overkill than it sounds like–without the overwhelming ##s of US subs and destroyers, the battle likely would not have gone my way, and the other incidental ships helped protect my megafleet and convoyed japan’s $$. Also the anzac and UK fighters weren’t needed after UK4 to protect india, so they could all be staged 1-2 turns earlier into Persia.
And may even be looking at a G5 moscow–dave reshuffled the entire opener and left me with a UK fleet that unfortunately, was lost on UK2 mopping up the Germans.
Its my turn to play Axis, next—and uphill against my own patch!
PainState last edited by PainState
Ok, so let me get this straight.
Russia has 3 options on death. Death = losing Moscow.
#1 Russia can counter attack before the gates of Moscow…which will result in death.
#2 Russia can mass as much force as possible in Moscow, including UK/USA FTR…which will result in death.
#3 Russia can exit Moscow in force with everything intact and concede Moscow…which will result in death.
Well, if given 3 choices of death would not the logical choice of death be #3?
If Russia has a stack of 25 INF, 8 ART 8 MINF, 8Tanks, 3AAA. Not including any planes flying around like chickens with their heads cut off. Does that stack not represent an obstacle for Germany? Can Germany let that stack live and just move on with their lives to crush Cairo or London and repulse any USA/UK invasions on the West and ignore it?
What if that stack moved North East of Moscow? Will the Germans follow it? At what point would Germany realize they are chasing ghosts and turn their Mech and ARM to another front? Would they even be able to?
Here is the point.
IF you choose option #1 or #2 that results not just in the destruction of Moscow but of 95+% of all the Russian units on the Board. Thus Germany no longer has to worry about having a large % of its TUV sitting on the Russian front and can redeploy them elsewhere.
Does it not make sense to preserve as much Russian TUV and keep it on the board even after the fall of Moscow? Keep Germany focused on Russia?
There are too many scenarios the Russian player could do to keep Germany/Japan occupied with this large stack after the fall of Moscow to list out.
I think its sound. The goal is to make Germany’s expenditure of time and resources as large as possible, to diminish their chances of overwhelming the 8th VC. As far as I can tell, its going to be more expensive (relative) for them to destroy a turtled moscow than it is for them to chase down an even bigger allied stack later in the game (becuase the Axis would have all of Russia’s income and 4 bonuses to fuel that later, final battle).
That’s the only drawback I can see to your plan, without testing it—if we abandon moscow they can grab that with just a few units and still use the bulk of German and Italian forces to step up to/trap/surround the fleeing stack. If the stack could protect all the $2 territories, that’d be even better–but its pretty much an equal trade (south to printed $ and north to NO $), and without a capital, its not like Russia is keeping the money…shoot they normally just hand any extra income earned by cadgy play right over to the Axis anyways…
PainState last edited by
I agree that at some point the Russian troops would have to make a last stand against the Germans. Regardless of how you redeployed the troops.
My POV is that if the remaining Russians can delay Germany from winning the game by consuming 2-4 extra turns, how ever the Russians manage to pull that off. Then that is a Allied gain in the big picture of the war. Allies want to gain time (turns).
Iam a big believer in making my foe have to make choices. Choices lead to mistakes which you can exploit.
If you just stack in Moscow you are presenting Germany with no choices. The choice is obvious and straight forward for Germany.
In order to delay a German crush on Moscow you will need the help of US/UK.
The Allies need to at least threatening a landing on S.Fra, Normandy, Norway, Denmark, N.Ita or S.Ita. Everything else is bogus. If you can’t Force Germany to build some ships then they will have free hands on Moscow and it will not matter what they do or how they die.
And, when Germany captured Moscow, they will be in London/Cairo in No Time!
Germany has to send all his assets towards the East. Everytime Germany has or needs to build ships is one to two units less who can march towards Moscow.
If you want to delay a German march towards Moscow, then build up a JFK devinsive line.
J= Novo,Bela,W.Ukr, Ukr, Bessa
F=Bela,Smolensk, W.Ukr,Ukr, Bryansk
K=Smolensk,Bryansk,Rostov and Russia from where you refit and supply your troops.
You have to time it and have to be powerful enough to knock out any Ita Canopeners.
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