AARHE: Phase 2: National victory conditions

Remember this is not individual victory but national victory.
So you’ve gotta tell us whats the “pass” mark (how many NVPs).

I always figured it was the person closest to perfect (100 NVPs)

oh…so that would be like an “individual victory” then

individual victory is fine
although it may be tough to balance

I was hoping for a “national victory” so that your team (Axis/Allies) can win the war but your nation essentially lost
(a bit like UK in WWII)

I guess we could have both right?
say after tuning we end up with 5 conditions per player
then you must achieve 3 of the 5 or you’ve “failed as a nation” even if you “win as a team”

Make it so that the player must have at least 66 NVPs out of 100 to have won ‘nationally’, and whoever is closest to 100 is the teams ‘MVP’?

“3 out 5” or so is just to minimize the counting thats all

so we could use the “conditions” primarily
and then count the points to decide on the individual victory player when neccessary

NVP = National Victory Points
MVP = Most Victorious Player?

thats quite different again

this risk-like idea brings a “sudden death” game mode
it also makes you play in a particular way because of a card draw

my idea was national victory leads to each power playing for themselves just as much as for their team
if your team lose, you lose
if you lose as a nation, you also lose

I think to simplify we can still go with Adonai’s system but say simplify to a “3 out of 5” benchmark
cutting down to major things
(Adonai can start a new thread like “AARHE: Phase 3: Individual Victory” and make his rule for individual victory or most victorious player)

I’ve finally digested Adonai’s list
I also read thru the older posts to recollect everyone’s ideas
after writing this I feel we might even be able to cut down to “2 out of 3” but maybe gameplay becomes predictive

we could do a “3 out of 5” system like:

Germany
Establish Lebensraum ~ End the game in control of Western Europe, Germany, Southern Europe, Norway, Eastern Europe, Balkans, Switzerland (if not neutral) and Spain (if not neutral).
Africa Campaign ~ End the game with Germany/Italy control of all territories in Africa if not neutral.
Conquer Russia ~ End the game in control of Russia.
Operation Sealion ~ Capture United Kingdom.
Defend the Fatherland ~ Always in control of Germany.
Strengthen the German war machine  ~ End of the game must be at least 500 IPCs

Italy (2 out of 3)
Establish new Roman Empire ~ End the game in control of Southern Europe, Balkans, Trans-Jordan, Anglo-Egypt, Libya, Algeria and Turkey (if its not neutral).
Remain an important part of the Tripartite Pact ~ End the game with at least 1/3 income level of Germany.
Control the Mediterranean ~ End the game in control of Gibraltar, Algeria, Trans-Jordan, and Anglo-Egypt.

Japan
Conquer China ~ End the game in control of Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, and Kwangtung.
Establish Pacific Control ~ End the game in control of original islands and Midway Island, Hawaiian Islands, Australia and New Zealand.
Post War Superpower ~ End the game with income level higher than Germany.
Secure Oil Resources ~ End the game in control of Anglo-Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Saudi Arbaia (whether neutral or not) and Persia.
Northern Buffer ~ End the game in control of Buryatia S.S.R, Soviet Far East, Alaska and Midway Island.

USSR
Eastern Europe Buffer ~ End the game in control of West Russia, Belorussia, Uktraine S.S.R., and Eastern Europe.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before US or UK.
Protect Heavy Industry ~ Always in control of Caucasus and Russia and income level always above 14 IPCs.
East Asia Influence ~ End the game in control of Manchuria and Mongola (if its not neutral). Or end the game in control of Japan.
Expand Communism ~ End the game in control of Eastern Europe Buffer, Norway, Balkans and Turkey. Or end the game with majority control of majority control of Mongolia, Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung, and  French Indochina.

UK
Preserve Colonial Empire ~ End the game in control of original territories, Solomon Islands and Borneo.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before USSR or US.
Contain Communism ~ End the game with UK/US control of Western Europe, Southern Europe and Norway.
Battle for Britain ~ Do not allow United Kingdom to be attacked by Axis land units for more than 2 combat cycles.
Preserve Military Might ~ End the game with total value of units no less than 300 IPCs.

US
Contain Communism in Europe ~ End the game with UK/US control of Western Europe, Southern Europe,  Norway. End the game with UK/US majority control of Mongolia, Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung, and French Indochina.
Battle for Britain ~ Do not allow United Kingdom to be ever captured by Axis.
Maintain Public Support ~ Never lose more than 75 IPCs worth of units during a turn.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before USSR or UK.
Occupy Japan ~ End the game in control of Japan.

I like Imperial Leader’s idea - it would be great when playing a quicker game.

As tekkyy suggested, we could have national victory using your cards and individual victory using my system? Remember that this is an optional added degree of complexity. Players can use it, but if they don’t want to add the extra layer of complexity they can forgo it. IMO that means it’s ok if the system is complex…

yes all these are certainly gonna with marked with “(optional)”
ok we might as well have it all

mission victory (optional)
national victory (optional)
individual victory (optional)

what to do now:

*comment on my list (for use in mission and national)
*comment on Adoni’s numbers (for use in individual victory)

I don’t like combining “mission” and “national” into this marginal/substantive/decisive victory thing though. This is because thats only good for a gauge of performance. Whereas I am hoping for “national” to push players to give nation and team equal priority.

ok lets start criticizing and sugguesting changes to the list

in particular I was most unclear about Japan’s WWII goals/needs

I duno
just that Japan was the one I made most changes
the other nations I used more of Adonai’s ideas

maybe you can pass them onto your friends (it seems like you have a group of regular players) to see what they think

@Imperious:

I feel that these conditions are so good that they really enhance a historical feel for the game that never existed before. This add alot of new ideas of team competition that was never brought up before for the allies. Whoever came up with this list has touched the face of an Axis and Allies god.

Much of it is formed from Adonai’s list. He has been quietly working on this.  :mrgreen:
Although we threw away the assosicated points system which now goes into individual victory.

Ok I’ve highlighted your modifications in bold so its easier

Germany
Establish Lebensraum ~ End the game in control of Western Europe, Germany, Southern Europe, Norway, Eastern Europe, Balkans, Switzerland (if not neutral) and Spain (if not neutral).
Africa Campaign ~ End the game with Germany/Italy control of all british territories in Africa.
Conquer Russia ~ End the game in control of Russia.
Operation Sealion ~ Capture United Kingdom.
Defend the Fatherland ~ Always in control of Germany.
1000 year Reich  ~ End of the game with 50+ IPC per turn of income

Italy (2 out of 3)
Establish new Roman Empire ~ End the game in control of Southern Europe, Balkans, Trans-Jordan, Anglo-Egypt, Libya, Algeria and Spain (if its not neutral).
Remain an important part of the Tripartite Pact ~ End the game with 25+ of income per turn.
Control the Mediterranean ~ End the game in control of Gibraltar, Algeria, Trans-Jordan, and Anglo-Egypt.

Japan
Conquer China ~ End the game in control of Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, and Kwangtung.
Establish Pacific Control ~ End the game in control of original islands and Midway Island, Hawaiian Islands, Australia and New Zealand ( control all pacific islands)
Post War Superpower ~ End the game with income level higher than Germany.
Secure Oil Resources ~ End the game in control of Anglo-Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Saudi Arbaia (whether neutral or not) and Persia plus her own territory of borneo/ east indies
Northern Buffer ~ End the game in control of Buryatia S.S.R, Soviet Far East, Mongolia, Alaska and Midway Island.

USSR
Eastern Europe Buffer ~ End the game in control of West Russia, Belorussia, Uktraine S.S.R., and Eastern Europe.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before US or UK.
Protect Heavy Industry ~ Always in control of all factories and income level always 15 IPCs or greater.
East Asia Influence ~ End the game in control of Manchuria and Mongola (if its not neutral). Or end the game with no japanese in mainland Asia.
Expand Communism ~ End the game in control of Eastern Europe Buffer, Norway, Balkans and Turkey. Or end the game with majority control of majority control of Mongolia, Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung, and French Indochina.

UK
Preserve Colonial Empire ~ End the game in control of original territories, Solomon Islands and Borneo.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before USSR or US.
Contain Communism ~ End the game with UK/US control of Western Europe, Southern Europe and Norway.
Battle for Britain ~ Do not allow United Kingdom territory to be invaded sucessfully.
Preserve Military Might ~ End the game with total value of units no less than 300 IPCs. ( this is very hard to deal with… too much accounting… ill come back with a solution latter

US
Contain Communism in Europe ~ End the game with UK/US control of Western Europe, Southern Europe,  Norway. End the game with UK/US majority control of:  Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung, and French Indochina.
Protect the americas: No axis units in adjacent seazones or in original US territories?
Maintain Public Support ~ Never lose more than 75 IPCs worth of units during a turn. ( hmmm this will take more thought… its good but i hate the accounting aspect of it
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before USSR or UK.
Occupy Japan ~ End the game in control of Japan.

we could deconstruct each nation seperately or just post the version you want>?

Or you can even just post one item at a time. If its a complete new replacement then mention which rule you are replacing.