• Okay thanks for that info. Anyway let’s get back on track. First off–what’s our current list of new units? And who’s currently working on this. As you know I’m a pro-New Units guy and I’d like to share my ideas. But first I wanna see the current list of units


  • This is the starting point:

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6378.0

    some of this will be covered under the NA’s or this proposed card system from GG.


  • At the moment no change to land units in place yet. We do have ideas of heavy tanks and mech infantry.
    Note DD and BB has been made cheaper.

    IPC Combat Dogfighting
    FTR 10 3/4 2/3
    FTR(Jet) 10 4/5 4/4
    BMR 15 4/1 0/1
    BMR(Jet) 15 3/3 0/2
    NAV 8 3/2 2/2
    DIV 8 3/2 1/2
    Antiair
    SS 8 2/2 0/0
    DD 10 2/2 2/2
    CA 15 3/3 3/3
    BB 20 4/4 2/2
    CV 16 1/1-3 1/1
    AP 8 0/1 0/0

    FTR Fighter
    BMR Bomber
    NAV Naval Fighter
    DIV Dive Bomber
    DD Destroyer
    CA Cruiser
    BB Battleship
    CV Aircraft Carrier
    SS Submarine
    AP Transport


  • Are we going ahead with the 3 sea movement?

    Destroyers and Crusiers move at 3. Everything else move at 2.

    SS   2
    DD   3
    CA   3
    BB   2
    CV   2
    AP   2

    Although I am worry whether it’ll destroy the map.


  • No only carriers and cruisers move 3… rest move 3


  • at a glance

    DD 36 knots
    CA 32 knots
    BB 20 knots
    CV 30 knots

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_World_War_II_destroyers
    http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/uk_fleet.htm
    http://www.naval-history.net/WW2RN26-BritishShipsCruisers.htm

    so I what thinking more like

    DD, CA        3
    the rest        2

    of course we have to thinking about what the game pieces represent…
    and supply ships? refuel depots?


  • so I what thinking more like

    DD, CA         3
    the rest        2

    I thought cruisers were fast that’s why they’re called “cruisers.” So they should have a movement of 3

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruiser

    *Wait no, CA stands for cruiser… I thought it was “carrier.” My bad


  • That destroyer thing needs correction… looked up the speeds of different nations destroyers

    source ww2 data book:

    Soviets 36-38
    Germany 38-30
    UK 35-36
    Japan 39-27.7
    USA  36.5-38
    italy 32-33

    cruisers were basically about 5-6 knots slower along with carriers

    Battleships lagged farther at 24-30 knots… mostly at 27-28 knot range.

    I also now feel that destroyers and carriers should be at 3 and the rest is at 2.

    Gen Patch says carriers are not to be included in group… lets look at numbers:

    UK  30.7-32.0
    USA 34-33
    Japan  28.3-34.5

    I used the primary front line carriers for the numbers… not those jeep carriers which were built latter in the war… those were slower.

    what you guys think?


  • I also now feel that destroyers and carriers should be at 3 and the rest is at 2.

    eh I was sugguesting destroyer and cruiser move at 3 not destroyer and carrier…

    your numbers hasn’t explained why it should be “destroyer and carrier” rather than “destroyer and cruiser” moving at 3 and the rest at 2

    I used the primary front line carriers for the numbers… not those jeep carriers which were built latter in the war… those were slower.

    yes we only consider fleet carriers here
    not the slow and small capacity escort carriers and stuff


  • your numbers hasn’t explained why it should be “destroyer and carrier” rather than “destroyer and cruiser” moving at 3 and the rest at 2

    +++++ i am not advocating this anymore…based on these numbers…

    Its allmost like the difference is not enough to make any change… what good would it do to marginalize the slower ships.

    My original idea was this:

    looking at the situation at in the pacific (e.g. midway and the attack on hawaii) we saw that the Carriers traveled either alone or in a really small group with other ships that could keep up with them. Nagumos first carrier strike force consisted of only carriers and destroyers with the cruisers and battleships like 300 miles farther away. To make a specific operation using carriers found they allways traveled with only small ship escorts… Perhaps its too much tactical ideas to attempt to model and we should stick to more basic approach.

    The second idea was to bring value to the faster ships but its been demonstrated that they have more than enough “value” as a surface ship ( refering to carriers and destroyers)


  • My idea now is that carriers, cruisers, and destroyers should have a move of 3, the rest 2.

    I thought cruisers are called “cruisers” because they’re fast
    Carriers are also fast because they had longer range than battleships
    And destroyers because they had to keep up with subs

    Is this correct?

    *Just to clear things up: does CA stand for carrier?


  • BB = battleship
    CA=cruiser
    CV=carrier
    DD=destroyer
    SS=submarine
    LST= Transport

    if we do that then the bb is totally left in the dust as like an old relic… if we go with that idea then at least BB gets preemtive hits and may even get something else. The point is to make each unit have value on its own. each unit has its own utility. IMO that may detract from a BB purchase… ideas?


  • Ok lets have Battleship Transport and Submarine move at 2.
    Destroyer, Carrier, and Cruiser move at 3.

    Battleship has opening-fire and Submarine has selective opening-fire so I don’t actually think its a problem.

    Nothing wrong with faster ships running away from a Battleship.

    @Imperious:

    LST= Transport

    I actually put Transport as “AP” in the draft. I was thinking landing crafts might be tactical level.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_classification_symbol

    LHA Amphibious Assault Ship
    LST Landing Ship, Tank
    AP Transport
    APA Attack Transport


  • By the way, we once considererd giving air units extra range in “Non-combat Move” phase.

    It could be “move twice” (to model refuel)
    It could be extra 2 spaces (to model external fuel tank in ferry-mode not combat-mode)


  • It could be extra 2 spaces (to model external fuel tank in ferry-mode not combat-mode)

    I think this is better… the planes done have bombs to carry hence they have longer range 2 extra is perfect

    AP is good vs. LST

    Thats keeping with proper military terms…


  • ok


  • 1. just found a problem
    DIVE (dive bombers) is useless!
    NAV (naval fighter) is better

                   IPC    Combat    Dogfight
    FTR         10      3/4         2/3
    NAV         8       3/2          2/2
    DIV          8       3/2          1/2

    2. FTR gives ARM +1 on 1-to-1 basis under air superiority, what about NAV and DIV?

  • Moderator

    Dive Bombers can target Capital Ships? All AA Fire hits them at -1?

    GG


  • 1. just found a problem
    DIVE (dive bombers) is useless!
    NAV (naval fighter) is better

    IPC    Combat    Dogfight
    FTR        10      3/4        2/3
    NAV        8      3/2          2/2
    DIV          8      3/2          1/2

    2. FTR gives ARM +1 on 1-to-1 basis under air superiority, what about NAV and DIV?

    +++ Ok what i have been doing is use the term “naval fighter” and “divebomber” as the same thing when it applies to the sea.

    Lets go over it again:

    perhaps the problem is what we call these things… solution

    Divebomber for land attacks. These planes have the values to state and have the same attack values as fighters do against land targets and cost -2 less than fighters.
    they also have a poor defense. These units can only attack land or air ( no naval)

    Torpedo bomber or “naval fighter” are for sea attacks. they also have a poor defense and they should have a more limited range ( one space from carrier one space back–- whether or not the carrier has  moved)… these planes can only attack sea and air targets ( no land)

    thats the differences. They are not even seperate pieces or have to be since divebombers came from land to land territories and torpedo planes originate from carriers. The only plane that can do both is fighters.

    Dive Bombers can target Capital Ships? All AA Fire hits them at -1?

    ++++ any plane can “target” a ship with exceptions ( DD and CA can sheild the hits to them at 1/1 basis). Also a torpedo run by a divebomber forces them to fly at a low level at a slow rate of speed. that -1 could be good because it represents an advantage to the aa guns on these ships.

  • Moderator

    Well Dive Bombers were harder to hit them Torpedo Bombers, there is a difference… But I guess you should choose one or the other and fly with it (no pun intended)

    GG

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