Axis & Brollies: D12 Unit Profiles

@taamvan Nope. Its Deathheads map he came out with right around 1st AA50 edition came out. 2008 or 9 I believe. He did get ideas from AAE AAP. Had his own Mods with using AA50 rules if they applied. D6. I changed a ton of stuff to it and made it a D12 system. Game reports are in House Rules thread under 1940 Global War 2nd Edition if your interested in looking at. Honestly The 2 young good players I have went at it in Europe the whole game. Said it was the best game for them as far as historic effects. Convoy raiding SBRing back and forth and UKUS did there NA combine attack one time in game and got Paris back. Germany had UK down to 26 icps with raiding and some Africa stuff but US got on board and finally got UK back to 50 icps in income. Also what hurt UK early was there Tacs and destroyers could not get dice hits on the Wolf Packs. Epic. UK even had there NA Sub Hunters for whole game and Got a +1 for Tac bombers against lone subs and still missed a bunch. Also only 1-1 for figs hitting surfaced subs with a destroyer. 5 subs Vs 2 Destroyers can only scramble 2 figs. You also got to have the Sub being able to submerge after Tac bomber attack and even with a destroyer present. Then you give Destroyer a depth Charge drop attack. Map pics in the thread i posted.

@Baron: While discussing on Global development, Larry said: Oh… by the way… I’m ready to reduce the cost of cruisers to 11 IPCs. I also like the idea of adding an AA-gun like power to them. I suspect that would end up not cutting the mustard, however. Just too many steps and additional rules involved. LH-e http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4060&hilit=cruiser+11+IPC+cruiser+11IPCs&start=80 After all, maybe a Cruiser can be balance this way while adding some historical features (M3, AA): CL A3D3M3C11, 1 AA@1 on def. vs 1 plane Because, of course at 10 IPCs with 2 others additions, cruiser will be overboosted. I just realized that Tank A3 D3 were 5 IPCs at that time, so doubling the cost would have put Cruiser A3 D3 at 10 IPCs. And what is strange is that Larry back off because he felt that it would make 2 hits, 20 IPCs Battleship obsolete. I understand that 11 IPCs is a too odd number, but 10 was not. However, all the A&A combat structure is based on this fact that cheaper ground units are always better cost effective than costlier. Subs, DDs, Cruiser were following the rule, why bend it for Battleship? It would have follow the rule, in addition, the 2 hits repairable units is something still valuable.

Naval mines can hit transports. You call out mines on ships one by one. (to distinguish transport w/2 INF vs transport with INF+Tank) So yea, amphibious invasions are risky, but if you have naval superiority why march through France as the US when you can land and Greece and be super annoying.

@Partydad do a search on the forums here- there are several groups here that use a variety of well-tested event cards.

@Yavid: not revisiting the list nearly as much as I haven’t added in HBG’s UK set and will have to double check because I believe the French got some units since my last update. But yes I find it useful. I had not entered the 2nd Japan set or the UK set HBG released, those have been added. and the going nuclear set HBG just released.

My mind evolved on this topic when I add my 2 cents into G40 Redesign thread. Below are the main post which marks how things on lowering Sub A3 D1 C6 to A2fs D1 C5 and DD C6. @Baron: Thanks LHoffman for all the questions and commentaries. I would like to give answers to all but don’t have much time. I will still adress at least a few for now. @LHoffman: Hide your kids, hide your wives, tanks are gonna destroy everything out there. See my related comment under Tac Bomber below… @Baron: SUBMARINES A2 First Strike D1 M2 Cost 6 Cannot hit or be hit by other submarines, Any reason for no sub vs sub combat? Yes. I don’t want that Submarine be considered as sea-fodder. Also, it needs a little boost on offense (to keep balance vs Destroyer) because it is the only unit which isn’t at lower cost. Now, Subs directly aim surface vessels only. That emphasized the screening and fodder function of Destroyers. If you invest a lot in Submarines, your own surface fleet will be vulnerable against your opponent’s Subs. That wasn’t the case OOB. Large fleet confrontation showed Submarine’s destruction festival. To bypass Subs in a gamey way OOB, you must forget to bring Destroyers, so aircrafts can directly hit enemy’s surface vessels while Submarines on defense (using first strike @1) can still be used as casualty to screen against attacking Submarines (even with first strike @2). Hope I’m enough clear so you can see the issue. In addition, I believe it is historically a rare event that a sub sink a sub. Almost the same kind of oddity as Submarine taking down a Fighter with their AA fire. @Baron: DESTROYER A2 D2 M2 Cost 6 Nice and cheap. I read that Destroyers (and Destroyer Escort) were built in very large number amongst all navies. @Baron: TRANSPORT A0 D1 Last Strike M2 Cost 8, 1 hit Must be escorted by a warship when making an amphibious assault in an enemy’s Submarines infested SZ or Transports infested SZ, so to be able to ignore them/ or fight them with combat units. Otherwise, Submarines and Transports may be ignored during Transport Combat Move or Non Combat Move. Why so expensive? Most everything else got a cost decrease but transports got increased. It was a matter of balance compared to the defenseless transports taken last. Using such 1 hit Transport as desperate fodder in needy times can provides a few additionnal hits with larger and costlier warships. That wasn’t the case OOB. So at a matching cost with Fighter at 8 IPCs (OOB worth 10 IPCs), was about the way to statistically get a similar results compared to OOB defenseless transports escorted with Destroyers. I add this post to provide a link to where my idea on Submarine and Destroyer evolved into. @Baron: Cost and units values is a complex matter. If cost scale is mainly based upon a consistent  OOB ratio amongst units, my previous scale can be increase near OOB too. (Something I just realized.) Here is 2 comparative scales which can works with my units roster given above. Unit type   1st scale  Near  OOB scale Submarine    6             8 IPCs permanent A2 first strike against all surface vessels, including DDs Destroyer      6             8 IPCs blocks Submerge and Stealth move on a 1:1 basis. Transport      8             10 IPCS, 1 hit, Last Strike @1, no Taken Last casualty rule Cruiser          9             12 IPCs with one time AAA capacity Carrier           12           16 IPCs Battleship     15           20 IPCs with one time AAA capacity Fighter           8             10 IPCS Tactical B.    10            12 IPCS A4D3 with +1 A/D combined arms to Tank Strategic B.   10           12 IPCs All aircrafts can hit Submarines without Destroyer presence. Chosing the appropriate scale is an important issue. I can only add on this matter that I believe that a lower scale than OOB would accelarate the Allies ticking time bomb because a lot depends on USA warships building pace. Near OOB cost could be easier to get acceptance. However, introducing direct hits between planes might produces a lot more losses amongst original set -up units. More  money (from NOs or anything else ) could be needed to keep up with OOB rythm of losses. @Baron: @Black_Elk: I’ll admit to being somewhat torn. On the one hand I think Baron’s unit interactions are excellent and very well thought out, and I also recall the development process over time in countless threads, so I’ve seen how its grown into a pretty complete overhaul. But I also know that people may be reluctant to adopt a series of sweeping changes to the roster. For those who want the familiar OOB combat system just with a different “campaign” dynamic (different NOs, incomes or starting unit distributions) a complete redux of the combat phase might put them off, since it requires you to learn a lot of new things. I would say that threshold here for me is whether or not the unit interactions can be easily handled in tripleA, without requiring a bunch of new code, or the introduction of new phases and the like. I’m not a huge fan of combined arms. I know in the OOB game this is a huge part of what makes TacBs useful, but I rather prefer it when each unit has a unique stand alone role, without being reliant on other units to be effective. Artillery set the precedent though, so I suppose its here to stay now, I’d just be careful not to run away with the concept. I think the combat phase becomes a lot less intuitive when the unit attack/defense values change based upon which other units are in the fight. The TacB is rather different than artillery, because it is itself boosted by other units, rather than providing the boost. Artillery has a baseline attack value of 2 that doesn’t change based on which other units are in the fight, which I think is a bit simpler to grasp. I suppose by now everyone is used to the combined arms that currently exist, but adding a bunch of new specialized unit relationships might be off putting to some. Again though, I’m willing to explore at this point. A ground up roster revision is very ambitious. IDK which direction you will take but I dislike combined arms (except for Art and Inf or MI) too. Changing the combat value of units during combat is annoying and slowing the pace on A&A boardgame. I know you are looking for simplicity. Hence few revised units, such as Subs, TPs, DDs. I knew it was bit overstretched. For Submarines and Destroyers, I cut down the Surprise Strike and blocker because most of the time there is enough DDs to neutralized this special ability. Making both at the same cost would have put a balanced Sub at A3 D1 vs DD at A2 D2. Keeping it at a lower but constant A2 first strike keeps the symbolic surprise attack (figurating the sneaky torpedoes) while putting Subs as a better offensive warship than Destroyer. On the other hand, I simplified the Sub defense value to a regular and constant D1. Anyway, most of the time, it was the usual Sub defense OOB since DD is always present to block Subs escape. So, when Sub is part of a fight it keeps the same value from the start till the end. Simpler. Since this Sub is weaker than OOB Sub vs Destroyers, I add Sub cannot hit Sub (for offense while making it a less interesting fodder) and gives it a better survivability with DD blocking Submerge and Stealth only on 1:1 ratio which make sense at the same cost. At least, when a Submarine will be on offense, the A2 first strike promise to be more satisfying than OOB. On TcB and StB, making them the same cost with same attack value A4 is going to put players on a difficult dilemma: better range and mobility or better overall unit in defense. Buying TcBs A4 D3 M4 instead of StBs A4 D1 M6 will reduced the effectiveness of Dark Sky which rely a lot on higher mobility. @Baron: @The: Since Sub always have First Strike I thought only undetected subs have the first strike option (@2 in attack & @1 while defending) while detected subs fire along with all other vessels. At least this is the way we handle this in our games OOB, you are right Sub cost 6, A2 D1 and gets Surprise Strike if no DD is present. In my redesign Sub suggestion, DD cost 6 and block 1:1 Sub’s Submerge and Stealth Move, but can’t affect the Sub’s Surprise Strike (at 5 IPCs vs 6 IPCs, A2 first strike vs D2, the IPC ratio already put DD at the same OOB AACalc odds of 6 IPCs vs 8 IPCs, A2 vs D2) OOB odds: 88% vs 11% http://calc.axisandallies.org/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&aInf=&aArt=&aArm=&aFig=&aBom=&aTra=&aSub=8&aDes=&aCru=&aCar=&aBat=&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=&dArm=&dFig=&dBom=&dTra=&dSub=&dDes=6&dCru=&dCar=&dBat=&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Sub-SSub-Des-Fig-JFig-Cru-Bom-HBom-Car-dBat-Tra&ool_def=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Bom-HBom-Sub-SSub-Des-Car-Cru-Fig-JFig-dBat-Tra&battle=Run&rounds=&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=AA1942&territory=&round=1&pbem= Redesign odds: 88% vs 12% http://calc.axisandallies.org/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&aInf=&aArt=&aArm=&aFig=&aBom=&aTra=&aSub=6&aDes=&aCru=&aCar=&aBat=&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=&dArm=&dFig=&dBom=&dTra=&dSub=&dDes=&dCru=&dCar=5&dBat=&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Sub-SSub-Des-Fig-JFig-Cru-Bom-HBom-Car-dBat-Tra&ool_def=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Bom-HBom-Sub-SSub-Des-Car-Cru-Fig-JFig-dBat-Tra&battle=Run&rounds=&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=AA1942&territory=&round=1&pbem= Simpler to let Sub, cost 5, attack A2 First strike all the time, but defend @1 regular. Anyway, you would need Destroyer as fodder and to attack Sub, because they can Submerge, if their is no DD. @Baron: Unit type Cost  Combat values Special abilities SUBMARINE 5 IPCs A2fs* D1 M2 Permanent A2 first strike *against all surface vessels only, including DDs. Cannot hit Sub or Aircraft Submerge and Stealth Move DESTROYER 6 IPCs A2 D2 M2 Block Sub’s Submerge (first round only) and Stealth move, both on a 1:1 basis. TRANSPORT 8 IPCs A0 D0 M2, 1 hit, Carry 2 units, 1 Inf + 1 any ground unit No defense against warships, 1 Transport can escape from Naval Battle in the same SZ at each end of combat round, if there is no enemy’s aircraft. Simply remove TP from battle board and place it in the SZ on the map. Regular AA @1 against up to 1 plane, whichever the lesser. Undecided: Submarine’s Stealth Move and No Control of Sea Zone still afford 1 single shot @1 per Submarine unit against any warships or transports passing by in the same SZ. This is one possible result once added into lower cost structure. @Baron: This is the reduced cost structure with near OOB cost for planes and Carrier holding 2 planes (Fgs or TcBs). I also stick to this cost structure (5-6-9-12-15). I put the 1 hit Transport at 8 IPCs. I write here many ideas which still fit into core roster at this low cost. All other ground units are as OOB, except for Tank which no longer gives attack bonus to TacB. Feel free to quote, erase the quotation and my name, then change the units according to your idea. This can be a tool to provide a full view of everyone roster. Unit type   Cost   Combat values Special abilities SUBMARINE 5  IPCs A2fs* D1 M2 Permanent A2 first strike *against all surface vessels only, including DDs. Cannot hit Sub or Aircraft Submerge and Stealth Move On offense, Sub’s commander can allocate each hit whether on transports group or warships group, the owner still choose which individual unit is the casualty. On defense, Stealth Move allows (but not compel to) each Sub 1 single roll@1 against any ships passing through the Sub’s SZ. Only each Destroyer can get a single retaliate roll @2. DESTROYER 6  IPCs A2 D2 M2 Block Sub’s Submerge (first round only) and Stealth move, both on a 1:1 basis. TRANSPORT 8  IPCs A0 regAA1 D0 M2, 1 hit, taken as casualty according to owner’s choice. Carry 2 units, 1 Inf + 1 any ground unit No defense against warships, 1 Transport can escape from Naval Battle in the same SZ at each end of combat round, if there is no enemy’s aircraft. Simply remove TP from battle board and place it in the SZ on the map. Regular AA @1 against up to 1 plane, whichever the lesser. Can unload in a Sub infested SZ if escorted by surface warships. If you bring them in with attackers - as you would for amphibious - then any defense shots in excess of what is needed to sink the accompany ships MUST be applied to any transports until all shots are accounted for or there are no units left to assign them to. (Per OOB rule.) CRUISER 9 IPCs  A3 D3 M3 Shore Bombard 3 Gives +1 move to 1 surface vessel, paired 1:1 FLEET CARRIER 12  IPCs A0 D2 M2, 2 hits, Carry 2 planes, damaged Carrier still carry one aircraft. BATTLESHIP 15  IPCs A4 D4 M2, 2 hits, Shore Bombard 4 Both repair at purchase and repair phase in a SZ adjacent to a Naval Base SZ, or in NB SZ. Naval Base cannot repair more than 3 warships hits per turn. FIGHTER 10 IPCs A3 D4 M4 SBR: A2 D2, interceptors always destroy bombers first. TACTICAL BOMBER 12 IPCs A4 D3 M4 TBR: A1first strike,  Damage D6 on AB or NB, SBR: can do escort mission for StBs without bombing AB or NB. STRATEGIC BOMBER 12 IPCs  A4 D1 M6 SBR:  AA A1first strike up to two Fighters, whichever the lesser, Damage on IC, AB, NB D6+2 /minimum damage 2 pts if hit by IC’s/AB or NB’s AA gun. No damage when destroyed by intercepting Fighters. All aircrafts can hit unsubmerged Submarines without Destroyer presence. ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY 4 IPCs A0 D1 AAx2* M1 CM or NCM, 1 hit, Taken as last casualty on offence. *Fire each round @1 first strike against up to two aircrafts, which ever the lesser. Regular defense @1 if there is no enemy’s plane.

They can lose. Even mildly careless behavior can cause either team to lose—even with a huge bid or starting advantage. That’s just what kind of game this is. Have a great player play until Turn 6, then put a first time player in their seat and give them control of the other side to watch how quickly this swings.

Keep up the good work.