We need an allied playbook.

@Argothair said in We need an allied playbook.:

@weddingsinger said in We need an allied playbook.:

Would you like to do 2 games at once, playing both sides? Otherwise, I wouldn’t mind starting as either side, but tend to default to Axis.

You know what, I’m sorry to get your hopes up, but I think the two games I’m currently playing have got me fully occupied – I forgot that Russia can declare war immediately after Germany takes London, so I suffered what was effectively a surprise attack on my forces in Poland (I would have stacked up differently if I’d realized I was being attacked that turn), so now I’m in two fierce Global games that could go either way. That’s enough for me for now. If you like we can play a casual game as soon as I’m done with one of my current games.

Sure thing.

A couple of threads down I’ve got notes on setting up Germany for a Sea Lion option that might help in the future, like stacking your Germans in Romania to force the Russians to stay North.

/I like an optional Sea Lion in case the Allied player does a good defense. No sense in wasting 70+ ipcs on transports and navy Germany doesn’t need.

@crockett36 said in We need an allied playbook.:

Btw, if you’re going to playtest for fun I’m up for it, but I take two turns a week maybe. And i only do OOB, no bid.

1 or 2 turns as in ‘its Russia’s turn’? Or complete rounds?

I’m usually good for 0-2 nation’s turns a day.

@crockett36 Well it’s all about understanding the history my friend. The 2nd world war was won by the allies on December 7th 1941. The United States is the allied hammer that must crush both Germany and Japan, but it’s important to prioritize on the more dangerous monster; Germany.

Why is Germany more dangerous than Japan? Well primarily because of geography. They eliminate one allied power round one, are within striking distance of another on round two, and can march across the steppes to eliminate a third rather rapidly. Japan cannot eliminate any major powers. The US is essentially unconquerable, Australia is not a major power, and UK Pacific is only half of a power.

Secondly it’s because of their military composition. Germany has a large Air Force for punching, and tremendous ground forces that are relatively easy to replace. Japan has few ground forces, a massive Air Force, and large navy which is extremely costly to replace. There is no “cannon fodder” naval unit. The cheapest one is 6 IPCs.

For this reason I make sure that my first couple of purchases as the US enable me to take immediate offensive action once at war. Force the Axis to engage the US as soon as possible because US units are easily replaced, while Axis units are not.

@weddingsinger it’s an unusual season for me with a wife that has had complications from gall bladder surgery. She’s going to be okay, but won’t be up to speed until May.

In addition, I’m getting more cautious about my moves after a huge blunder in December in which I threw away a game because of excitement. I had just captured Moscow and was sitting on 100 ipcs and I set up my defence around denying the British Denmark. Only the Americans easily took Denmark, and the British my cash. I messed up the turn order because I had recently played classic and another global game with a tweeked turn order.

So I can try to do 3 nations per week. I’m way behind that right now in my current game, but February and March are birthday months around here so every weekend has been super busy.

I would imagine I could be a little less cautious because we’re trying to hammer out British openings. So run three turns and confer? Or a straight up match? Either is fine with me, if you can be patient. I love playing the game.

@M36 don’t tell anyone, but I think I’ve hit upon something. English channel.
Composition of us army 75/25 air/ground. Stay near the coast and use the ships to bombard. 3 us carriers, 1 British. Aim for 8 to 12 fighters, 4 men go ashore, grind up defence and let Brits walk in and take over.

@crockett36 Now that’s a plan I can get behind. Germany must either suffer the bombardment, or counter attack because that complex will be their downfall if it stays in allied hands.

Of course they could theoretically sink the fleet with the Luftwaffe but hey, any forces fighting in France are NOT fighting in Russia. Win win for the allies.

@crockett36 rinse and repeat

@crockett36 said in We need an allied playbook.:

@M36 don’t tell anyone, but I think I’ve hit upon something. English channel.
Composition of us army 75/25 air/ground. Stay near the coast and use the ships to bombard. 3 us carriers, 1 British. Aim for 8 to 12 fighters, 4 men go ashore, grind up defence and let Brits walk in and take over.

Something like this you want plenty of U.S. ground troops to take Normandy and then the U.K. can land fighters there to help keep it.

Presuming the usual German air force (3-4 fighters, tacticals and bombers), 2 carriers and 3 fighters for the scramble zone, then maybe 1-2 destroyers is plenty to keep your ships safe.

Now, I’d argue a strong Japan is still a problem since around J5 they can be making about as much as the U.S. and start gobbling up Russia/China with ease and head to Moscow… but if you want to go hard at Germany with this, the first 2 U.S. buys should do nicely… If J1 and you can do it quickly, I’m in favor of getting Norway just so the U.S. and UK can bomb Germany endlessly, but…

A U.S.1 buy of either 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, and 3 transports or 2 carriers and 2 transports for the Atlantic side does nicely for your goal. The U.S. already has the planes to outfit 2 carriers and the men to fill 4 transports (if you take Brazil), and then the cruiser. If a J1, you could be in position US3 for an attack on Normandy, Norway, or Italy, but a US4 seems better, because a US2 buy of bombers can land on London US3 and then help clear Italy’s waters or sz112 on US4.

US2 I might buy some subs instead of all bombers if Italy’s fleet is the target and you want the U.S. to be able to hit it. Then you’d want 4 subs for sure, a 2nd U.S. carrier…

Paired with the UK stack of sz92, you’ve got some serious options… If Germany doesn’t take S. France on G1, UK doesn’t need a Gibraltor airbase to keep its fleet, though you might anyway because Italy could sink much of it, then Germany hit you G2 with bombers to finish off the ships. Buy a transport in Canada (assuming they sank 1), so UK has 2 transports in the Atlantic again.

@weddingsinger I’ll pass on the bombers and purchase a second wave of transports in case Germany sinks your first wave. For round one I purchase 1AC and 2 DD for the east coast US one plus 2 transports for the west and a pair of infantry for central. Now around two I buy three transports for the east coast plus enough ground forces to fill all my transports. Now you have 4 transports ready to attack in both theatres by round three.

The best way to play the allies is to know what the axis are doing or MUST do. First I do recommend playing the Balance mod since it does help balance out the game quite a bit. I was skeptical at first but trust me it does help. So this will be written with that in mind.

Now as far as the overall axis strategy we know that the Japanese MUST take the money islands. If they do not then they will lose the game. This is an unfortunate balance issue with the game since it forces a one strat approach to the game which is odd since the rest of the game has many different strategy options.

We also know that Germany can take london if they can but NEED to take leningrad, stalingrad and caucasus to win.

Italy is the sleeping giant of the axis forces. If you let them get a foothold in africa, if you let egypt fall, if they take persia, iraq, and northwest persia they become a powerhouse. If Italy is a powerhouse chances are the axis will win the game.

Also Japan controls the flow of the game since when they attack determines when the USA comes into the war. A J1 is strongest for Japan but weakest for Germany whereas a J4 is weakest for Japan but strongest for Germany. So always keep this in mind.

As Russia you need to build tanks and mechs. 6 tanks round one then 3 infantry in leningrad and ukraine and the rest mechs and tanks. Believe me when I tell you if I am playing against a SU player and they just stack infantry I know I can hit with many more 3s and 4s vs their 2’s which they won’t have enough since if you stack infantry you are telling me you don’t care about any territory but Russia. I already have a stonger income. Russia getting mechs and tanks lets them be much more mobile allowing them to move north or south or even punch through a gap in the german line and push into poland. Or even, what I love to do, is stack tanks in leningrad and bumrush into norway. Sure they might take it back, but the uk can reinforce Norway and it will buy you time since now Germany has to take that territory back AND they just lost 10 IPC’s of income AND you just gained 11 IPC’s to put in russia or down south. A big win. Russia is about buying time so that the USA and UK can hit normany or cruise into the med. You could also declare war on Japan and send some mechs from russia into china.

As for the USA, take brazil as soon as you and build up a combat fleet with very few transports. The allies must work together to win. They have to cover each other or you won’t stand a chance. The USA is the backbone in both the atlantic and pacific. So build Carriers and destoyers, maybe a Battleship and send that fleet first to gibraltar, then up to sz 110, off the coast of normandy. Once you have enough ships to cover any air power and fleet that germany has you can then build transports with the UK and start sending guys into normandy. The USA should focus on hitting the caroline islands as soon as possible and backing up that fleet with Anzac. From there take the money islands, put down Destoyers as blockers and so on.

The UK must hold egypt at all cost. Get a complex there round one, and one in persia by round 3 at the latest. Make sure you don’t lose london. In the pacific make sure you don’t lose India. Build up a navy if you can and keep slowing down the japanese. Meet up with the anzac fleet and take those money islands. You should land 2 infantry with your transport you start off with from india and put down some blockers. You might want to do a 2 sub 1 marine buy. Those dutch islands are worth a lot and if you have to make japan fight for them you are slowing them down.

China is china.

Anzac builds a navy hard and takes as many islands as you can. Anzac is the sleeping Giant of the pacific. If you can buy 23 IPC’s a turn or more worth of naval vessels you are putting some hurt on japan. And link up and reinforce the caroline islands.

France…

At this point i have to say that the “Allied playbook” is getting out of everybodys hands.

Please take a look again at cow’s Germany and Japan playbook and realize that he didn’t lay out a whole game, rather the start in detail and the main goals.

As for a Allied playbook i will repeat my self because you have to lay out a start and marching route for the Allies but NOT the whole game.
Things may change during the game and chances and opportunities arising for a swift blow.
And this is where you have to be ready as the Allied Player!

We need to line out:
G1 J1 G2 J1 G3 J1
G1 J2 G2 J2 G3 J2
G1 J3 G2 J3 G3 J3…and SL scenarios…

For the Allies in general i would allways recommend a purchase strat. wich gives you flexabilty.
A sturdy tank, Inf or Bmbr buy is not allways the best solution if you miss out good opportunities to change the gameplan for the Axis.
Delay the gameplan of the enemy, stall him, get more income then the Axis, deal huge damage so that he suffocate to get enough supplies to places he needs them.

Tipp 1:
If you get a chance to kill ita canopeners do IT!

If you get a chance to kill IJN TT’s kill them!!

Move on!

@aequitas-et-veritas Yeah we do have a huge accumulation of strategies here haha. There’s just so many variables for the allies that it’s difficult to know exactly what you’re going to have available to you on your first turn, especially as U.K.

@Mursilis

If I’m the German player and see UK spend much anywhere that isnt London on UK1, like a Cairo factory, I’m taking London G3

@weddingsinger
It really depends on what Japan does. If they bring the US into the war you can build a factory. You might wait till turn two. I usually do a factory and then stack infantry and fighters in england. It really depends on how many ships I have left after Germany’s opening.

Well naturally almost every allied plan is an “if, then” plan. The openers I propose are ones that typically work regardless of what the Axis are doing.

Against my better judgment, here are some thoughts on the “meta” or “structure” of an Allied playbook.

With respect to Germany and Japan, the Allies are like the black pieces in chess – they’re responding to Axis initiative, so a good Allied player needs a battle plan for each of the most popular German and Japanese openings.

With respect to Italy, the Allies are like the white pieces in chess – the Allies set the initiative, and Italy has to respond. Depending on what the Allies do, Italy could start the game with one transport or three transports, with a big force in East Africa or no units in East Africa with a big stack in Tobruk or no forces in Tobruk, with Vichy control guaranteed, or with Vichy nearly impossible and an Allied landing force in Greece. So a good Allied player doesn’t need different plans to use against Italy; they just need one good anti-Italian attack. (A master-class player will need different plans so they can perfectly adapt their play to the situation on the board and keep their opponent off-balance, but that’s beyond the scope of a “playbook.”)

As I see it, the most popular German openings are:

• Sea Lion (build transports and some surface ships, focus on taking London on G3),
• Barbarossa (build mechs and tanks, focus on taking Moscow G5 - G7 with enough tanks/planes left over to threaten Egypt),
• Dark Skies (build mechs and bombers, focus on holding all Allies at bay with bombers while Germany accumulates income advantages from Norway, Leningrad, Stalingrad, and maybe Egypt and/or Iraq).

The most popular Japanese openings, as far as I can tell, are:

• a J1 attack on the Philippines and Borneo with the idea of taking all of the money islands by J2-J3 and taking India J3-J6 or at least knocking the UK Pacific’s income down to near-zero very quickly
• a J1 attack on Pearl Harbor, with or without an invasion of Hawaii, with the idea of tying down US assets to help Germany win in Europe
• a conservative J2 or J3 attack that focuses on knocking out China early and making high-value trades to keep Japan’s options wide open so they can threaten Russia, India, or Australia later in the game
• a suicidal attack on Russia, often through China, with planes being sacrificed to airblitz open a path and/or strategically bomb Moscow to weaken Russia for a German win.

So a good Allied playbook needs ways to address all 7 of these Axis openings, as well as one good anti-Italian attack. Personally, I prefer scrambling no planes against the German naval attacks and then launching the Taranto raid every game, combined with moving the Pacific transport to Persia and the Mediterranean transport to either Southern France (if needed to prevent Vichy) or Greece (if Vichy will not be triggered). On turn 1, always, I like to buy a factory in Egypt and 2 inf, 1 ftr in London. I like to follow that up with a factory in Persia, build mostly land units until Italy is cleared out of Africa, Iraq, and/or Syria, and then build mostly subs to shut Italy down in Sea Zone 97. It’s not a foolproof plan and there are times when something else might be slightly better, but this plan will always work well enough, no matter what your Axis opponents are doing. The Allies have enough to think about in the opening without trying to memorize five different anti-Italian openings.

@Argothair Good thoughts. I think that is a good approach.

@Mursilis said in We need an allied playbook.:

@weddingsinger
It really depends on what Japan does. If they bring the US into the war you can build a factory. You might wait till turn two. I usually do a factory and then stack infantry and fighters in england. It really depends on how many ships I have left after Germany’s opening.

Maybe, but that still requires the U.S. to buy 100% for the Atlantic side. Most effectively is the London Calling defense where you more or less allow for Germany to take London and then the U.S. sinks the transports on US3… but it takes specific steps. UK takes Ireland for a landing spot for U.S. bombers. US1 buy carriers, US2 buy bombers, move carriers to sz102.

@weddingsinger
I really don’t see how Germany can take london g3 if I put 12 dollars on egypt and the rest on london. UK1 5 in. UK2 1F 6 in. So 5 Fighters, 5 AA’s, 17 Infantry and the one infantry and tank from canada when you hit g3 with 9 tanks, 1 art and 10 infantry plus lets say 2 bombers 3 fighters and 3 tacs. Probably g4 if you stack scotland and then hit with a second force. It will still be very very costly if germany pulls it off to the point that I don’t see how they can survive russia who is stacking tanks and mechs. Should just blitz right in. Of course I could be completely wrong.