• me and my friends recently started a game of a&a, we quckly quit shortly after, realizing there was noo point to it. Since we figuered that everyone did the same moves always and if they failed to do this then the other side would do their moves and win. We found that since everyone has to do the same thing or lose, there is no variety to the game. 😐 has anyone else encountered this?


  • Definitely - That’s why my crew in ABQ usually plays with alternate teams.  Try Germany and Russia vs. Everyone else - that’s one of my favorites!


  • I agree there is not much variety once the skill levels are sufficiently high. It is always the Allies going after Germany, while Japan makes a long and lonely tank drive to Moscow. You get some variety when one of the players isn’t being efficient, but otherwise…


  • Maybe you should play with NA’s, and tweak the rules a little.  Our groups made it so that in the Pacific you can move 3 spaces per turn in the ocean instead of 2, to make island hopping more possible.  Also, if Axis and Allies starts to get boring and methodical take a brake from it.  Don’t play for a couple of months.

    If you want you can make your own games.  My friends and I once made a WWIII variation (of course w/out nuclear capabilities, that would make the game last 10 minutes).  We had Russia and China band together, and China was worth way more IPC’s.  Then its the European countries, and U.S.A. for the allies.  Japan doesn’t join the good guys until the third round of play. The communists are like the Axis, strong military weaker economy.  Democrats like the allies, weak military but strong economy.  The game still needs some tweaking to make it more balanced (NATO navy way too strong).

    IMO it’s way more fun creating your own maps and variations than playing the standard A&A.

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    Agreed, if combatants are equal and nobody tries untested strategies then it’s the same old same old. We are going to jump into Pacific and see if it offers more variety.


  • hence the need for a kjf which nobody (including myself) seems to be able to achieve


  • You can always get creative, but I’m telling you:  You don’t need to rack your brain coming up with different rules/conditions; just re-arrange the teams as they are.  I already mentioned Germany and Russia together, but you can also try US and Japan together as well.

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    If you are playing against opponents who want to WIN first. See Switch versus OCT in Games and the rant that followed the latest loss. You will understand why the KJF isn’t attempted. Why bother win a sound KGF strategy wins 75% of the time. As far as changing the game/switching sides (Germany & Russia vs everyone else) it sounds too strange for me.


  • I’ve said my piece; just know that in my opinion, it was one of the most interesting games I ever played.

    But know also that we switched sides again when someone got knocked out, so as to keep the game more even.  We played that way until UK took Berlin.  Russia and UK then allied against US and Japan, and the Russo/British alliance divided Europe amongst themselves.  Then later, the UK took Washington.  UK was a friggin’ powerhouse by that point, not to be trifled with, so I (Japan) and Russia joined forces against them.
    My leave ended at this time, so I personally couldn’t finish the game, but I was told that the Russkies took and kept London, and then (I’ll admit) they were in a position to crush the Japs.

    Even though I had to accept defeat there, it was a fascinating game as far as alternate strategy, hell even alternate history, so I’d gladly play those teams again anytime.  😉


  • I wholeheartedly disagree that there is no variety in A&AR. The element of of chance forces variety and adaptation. But that random element is not so overstated that it overrides the strategic element. This balance is, in my opinion what makes the game so interesting. I play with the same person all the time. Our games are always different, though my first move with Russia is always the same. The last game we played, my opponent rolled with three dice for rockets with Germany in the first turn and got them. This changed the game entirely. It changed the game so much that he ended up beating me for the first time since we purchaced the revised game. Also, his attack on Egypt failed which lead me to blunder by sacking India in order to develop Egypt with UK, something I would have never done had the German attack on Egypt been successful as is normal. These subtle contingencies can change the game entirely. The basic strategies of attempting to pressure Europe with the allies and Russia with the axis will indeed stay the same. But the methods by which the pressure is accomplished must changed as dictated by unexpected dice rolls. There is no way to ‘solve’ A&AR because there is no way to predict with certainty how any battle will be resolved. Transports can potentially take out battleships, enough said.


  • I agree- small changes here and there shift the game dramatically- a territory losing one extra Inf can have ripple effects throughout the game. I do agree that from a philosophical standpoint there isn’t a great deal of variety, unless you’re willing to go out on a limb and face a loss. But from the standpoint of the round to round battles, etc. I feel there’s a great deal of variety.

    Also- house rules are good fun. A friend and I are soon going to be playtesting a d20 variant (nerds, aren’t we?). Hopefully we can continue to approach realism while still having fun. Special units, etc. can also spice it up pretty well.


  • @Commissar_Adam:

    me and my friends recently started a game of a&a, we quckly quit shortly after, realizing there was noo point to it. Since we figuered that everyone did the same moves always and if they failed to do this then the other side would do their moves and win. We found that since everyone has to do the same thing or lose, there is no variety to the game. 😐 has anyone else encountered this?

    I am curious, which side typically wins?


  • @Octopus:

    @Commissar_Adam:

    me and my friends recently started a game of a&a, we quckly quit shortly after, realizing there was noo point to it. Since we figuered that everyone did the same moves always and if they failed to do this then the other side would do their moves and win. We found that since everyone has to do the same thing or lose, there is no variety to the game. 😐 has anyone else encountered this?

    I am curious, which side typically wins?

    Well If I put in my 2 cents from the 10-12 games I have recently played the axis has only lost 2x.  Granted some of them america was very unfocused, but even when america was focused a good japan player has been able to pretty much run amuck, smash russia, and then reinforce germany (which should probably be breached and weakened by UK/American trannies) enough to hold them off until japan can regroup and push towards western us.


  • it seems that when new to the game axis wins alot then it shifts, forcing the axis to improve their play dramatically.  if you want more variety in the strats you need to employ try the national advantages, i conjecture that is what they are designed for.


  • @critmonster:

    it seems that when new to the game axis wins alot then it shifts, forcing the axis to improve their play dramatically.  if you want more variety in the strats you need to employ try the national advantages, i conjecture that is what they are designed for.

    All I have heard on here though is that the national adv. immensely favor the allies (national adv that are suggested in the rule book) so by that logic wouldn’t it insinuate that without the national advantages the axis has the upperhand in most games when played well?


  • perhaps vet, but i tend to think that the designers, while brilliant, were not “expert” level players so indeed mybe they felt the need to favor the allies but more likely they felt these advantages had historical reasons to be the way they are (and to guarantee the allies victory) if your group is at a point where the axis are winning all the time, give the allies a NA and see what happens.

    we played a game with 1 NA each saturday and it had minor effect but it did change things, especially for the axis (non-aggression for russia sent japan west)


  • @critmonster:

    it seems that when new to the game axis wins alot then it shifts, forcing the axis to improve their play dramatically. if you want more variety in the strats you need to employ try the national advantages, i conjecture that is what they are designed for.

    We had the same thing over here:

    we played 4 times since I bought the game, I always played Axis:
    First 2 plays were in favor of Axis while every Allie was newbie in both games
    Then Allies won the third game, while they worked as a team…
    4th game (Friday, 31st of March) Axis won again because I had my strategy improved greatly (my opponent forfeited after round 4)

    So, if I post stupid things, I’ve only played A&A 4 times with opponents and 2 times I played it solely…


  • This is my first post but have been an active reader to this board and don’t want to be rude.  It always bothers me when I see posts like this one.  If all of your moves/purchases never change then of course the game will get boring… the simple way to prevent this from happening is to not change the rules, but actually try new moves/purchases once in a while.  You may lose… big deal, I have fun either way!  I’ve tried alot of oddball moves, many don’t work, but sometimes you get lucky!  My last game played I was Allied and my friend Axis, he actually attacked mainland UK on G1… and was successful!  How… got lucky with Heavy bomber roll, attacked with 1Bom, 2Fighters, 1Tank, 1Inf.  He got GREAT rolls, mine sucked… point was he had a tank on UK on round 1.  That’s why I play!


  • The first round of play is often the most important. A great way to mix up the game is to change the starting units and thier locations. Two variants:

    Before the first round, each country can trade in three units for thier cash value and the nspend that cash on whatever they want, and put those units where ever they want. Most often, people will cash in expensive units like battleships, bombers, or industrial complexes and buy extra tanks, fighters, or whatever it is they want. This has awesome potential to change the start of the game.

    Version two, you start with all the same units, but can re-arrange thier starting locations around your territories. Again, all kinds of different starting strategies can be found.

    In both of the above cases, players must work out what they 're buying and where they’re putting things on the map WITHOUT ACTUALLY DOING IT. You write it down on paper, then when everyone has done it you reveal your plans to the rest of the players. This ensures you can’t tailor your plans to what other people are doing, and it makes people awfully surprised to see what thier enemies are plotting.


  • I would practically all my units in Western Russia as Germany and crush Russia turn one or two.  Also what seazones could you consider ‘yours’?


  • @Rising:

    Version two, you start with all the same units, but can re-arrange thier starting locations around your territories. Again, all kinds of different starting strategies can be found.

    I thought of this one, too…
    Only thing I would still apply:
    You can only move a number of units, not all! (10 for example).
    and they can only move their normal rate of movement. so, an infantry in western europe won’t make it to Ukraine…


  • I think using movement limitations and a limit of 10 is a good variant. As for piling everyone in West Russia, yes, that could happen, but then Russia could pile everything in the capitol and hold you off, then all of your other territories are free for UK. It’s very easy to try and win in one round by sending everyone after a capitol like that, and inevitably it’s what everyone did the first time we played that way, but then you learn pretty quick that people are going to second-guess that strategy and you’ve got to cover your ass on all sides. In the end, people end up going with more realistic, and ultimately more enjoyable, starting troop placements.

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