• Been messing around with AA guns having an attack value. This has discussed before. I posted values and what they can do in a games. This is for d12 system.
    AA Gun
    A2 pick target with return shot
    D2 pick target or plane shot
    M1
    C6

    Can be towed by a Mech or SPA
    2 spaces non combat only.

    D6
    A1
    D1

  • '17 '16

    IDK, what is your general intent but allowing AAA an attack factor makes it for a smaller AAgun with more mobility than usual OOB designed to figure for an hardpoint with lot of AA defense.

    I would look into decreasing cost and combat value to increase the affordability and popularity.

    Something like (12-sided dice) A1 D1 C3 against up to two aircraft first but allowing a minimal defense @1 against regular unit if no enemy’s plane.


  • @Baron:

    IDK, what is your general intent but allowing AAA an attack factor makes it for a smaller AAgun with more mobility than usual OOB designed to figure for an hardpoint with lot of AA defense.

    I would look into decreasing cost and combat value to increase the affordability and popularity.

    Something like (12-sided dice) A1 D1 C3 against up to two aircraft first but allowing a minimal defense @1 against regular unit if no enemy’s plane.

    Thee intent is to get the AA to attack and defend as 1 piece instead having 2 different AA guns and get maybe a few more AA guns in game for airdefense in non Capitals. I have used the white AA gun as an A and D piece. Or used for tank destroyers.
    Have had in game Grey AA gun D@2 planes only
    White AA gun A@1 any piece and D@2 planes only C5 M1
    Now I could just make Grey AA guns A@1 D@2.
    If you get Radar Tech AA gun D@3 and replace with White AA gun.
    If you get Rockets Tech replace AA gun with Orange AA gun.
    In game now there is a ton of SBR attacks going on all the time.
    The Rockets Tech helps Russia get to at least SBR one minor factory and one Oil Derrick in game. Just buy 1 AA gun and shuffle them all south one territory. But now if you can add a few more AA guns to game it benefits all. But would probably need to have a Cap where only 1 AA gun attack per facility. The AA gun Rockets Tech gives u a D8 roll for damage.
    Could add 1 AA gun per country on setup to but would be starting in own Capital.

    Now could leave that and have Mech or SPA tow AA gun only in non combat.

    AA gun in non combat only now in game can be

    Towed
    Air transported
    Sea transported

  • '17 '16

    Maybe you can use all facilities with integrated AA defense only.
    It gives more AAA sculpt for various purposes. And gives more space on map for combat unit.


  • Ea facility does have a built in AA defense.
    Could just make AA gun A2 D2  planes only C5 M1.

  • '17 '16

    Industrial complex also get in-built AA?

    How many rolls get your AAA vs planes?
    Three or unlimited number up to 1 per plane?


  • @Baron:

    Industrial complex also get in-built AA?

    How many rolls get your AAA vs planes?
    Three or unlimited number up to 1 per plane?

    IC don’t have built in AAA guns.

    AAA gun
    A2 1 shot at 1 plane only first round only
    D2 1 shot at each plane first round only

  • '17 '16

    @SS:

    @Baron:

    Industrial complex also get in-built AA?

    How many rolls get your AAA vs planes?
    Three or unlimited number up to 1 per plane?

    IC don’t have built in AAA guns.

    AAA gun
    A2 1 shot at 1 plane only first round only
    D2 1 shot at each plane first round only

    To make depiction consistent, a mobile Anti-Aircraft cannot be everywhere in a TT nor having tremendous firepower.
    If it was my playground, using 12 sided dice, and wanting more AAA purchase, I would make set-up IC with in-built AA gun (@2 against an infinite number of plane, max 1 roll per plane, First strike against SBR), but other Factory built during game without such in-built AAgun, unless paying a 5 IPCs supplement on purchase.

    Regular AAA would be much cheaper and weaker than in-built counterparts, either 3 or 4 IPCs, probably more 4 (same as Artillery).
    And only 1 roll @1 (D12) per up to 3 units (thus keeping somehow the redundant “3” for special attack), max one roll per enemy’s plane with no First strike.
    Rolling each combat round.
    So, AAA would be at weaker odds than Artys A4 D4, especially when there is only 2 or 1 enemy’s plane.
    (Anyway, this AAA would normally roll two or three combat rounds at most before taking it as casualty instead of an higher hitter, such as Arty or Tank.)

  • '17 '16

    Your TcB are targetting enemy’s unit if I remember correctly.
    So, it is no big deal if AAA roll each combat round, as long as there is no First strike.
    TcB rolling a hit will be able to get rid of such AAA.

    And comparing both types of AAgun, in-built would be at 17% first strike kill ratio per aircraft while field AAgun would be at 8.5% kill ratio with return shot per aircraft per combat round.
    Thus emphasizing the big difference in firepower and how facilities and ICs were much more heavily defended.

  • '17 '16 '15

    I have them at A0 D1 can shoot at 2 planes can take over empty TTs C4. It’s D6 in global. I find I buy them all the time : )

  • '17 '16

    Hi Barney,
    4 IPCs for an Artillery unit like AAA seems intuitively more acceptable than 3 IPCs.

    Did you modify the AAA unit in TripleA, so you get to defend preemptively against up to 2 planes and rolling @1 during reg combat phase?

    In my last playtest, I considered AAA as a real defensive unit to purchase, since it does not have attack value. So, I boost regular defense to @ 2, same as Inf or Arty.

    It is easier for casualty order of losses.
    If you want to keep costlier for same defense, it goes: Inf (3), Arty or MI (4), then AAA (4).

    However I played it with no preemptive fire.
    Only in-built AAgun on IC were preemptive.
    Still, it can be played with both preemptive fire @1 vs up to 2 planes and a reg defense @2, so defending player does not have to forsee if he is going to survive the present battle and keep a lame defense @1 while sacrificing better defense @2 of Inf and Arty or MI (same with bombers defending @1).

    It makes sense that on defense you kind of protecting your assets of bombers and airfield. However, AAA were meant to be a purely defensive unit so, it is somewhat inconsistent from a gameplay POV to make AAA weaker than other units able to attack also.

    IMO, besides in-built AAgun, attacking AAA and defense oriented AAA can be seen as two different approaches which can find some real historical basis on types of AAguns.

    @CWO:

    @Ichabod:

    Anti-aircraft units are/were embedded with combat commands at varying levels and always go “forward” with the command they fall under during offensive operations. In the US Army today; Air Defense Artillery is mostly a Corp level asset in which various companies or battalions are attached to brigades or other commands as needed.

    Just as a point of background (since I don’t have any particular preferences about the proposed HR itself), not all WWII AAA units were intended to be mobile support units for advancing ground forces.  Some were, some weren’t.  Speaking very generally, light WWII AAA weapons were sufficiently transportable that they could, in principle, alternate quickly between moving and shooting (or even do both simultaneously in the case of vehicle-mounted light autocannons or heavy machine guns).  Heavy WWII AAA weapons could be towed to their place of operation, but then had to be set up before they could operate and could not move while doing so.  The heavier the weapon, the more it tended to be used for the fixed defense of fixed installations (like cities and military bases), not for mobile battlefield support.  Keep in mind that US Army practice today, 70 years after WWII, doesn’t provide an accurate picture of what US Army practice was during WWII, when armies were far less motorized (especially when you consider the situation of other WWII armies, which by and large were even less motorized than US forces).

    So, for SS D12 game, it might be:
    AAA
    Att 1
    Def 4
    Move 1
    Cost 4
    Prior to general combat offense or defense, roll @1 (12 side dice) against up to 3 planes, 1 roll per plane max.

  • '17 '16

    @SS:

    Been messing around with AA guns having an attack value. This has discussed before. I posted values and what they can do in a games. This is for d12 system.
    AA Gun
    A2 pick target with return shot
    D2 pick target or plane shot
    M1
    C6

    Can be towed by a Mech or SPA
    2 spaces non combat only.

    D6
    A1
    D1

    About picking target, I’m not a fan of selecting ground unit with a ground unit.
    I understand why AAA pick aircraft or why TcB can dive upon Tank and not Infantry.
    Outside these two, I cannot understand why entranched field artillery gunners can truly pick what division is thrown at them. If attacker send many Infs and 1 Tank, it does not seems right your immobilized Arty unit get rid of Tank first.


  • Was trying ideas to get AAA in game more.
    I like idea of AAA getting a shot at planes on D first round and then getting a D shot on 2nd round or so.
    A0
    D2 at 1 plane up to 3 only first round
    D4 after first round only
    M1
    C4
    Can be towed by mech or SPA
    Can be airtransported by plane

    There is one round of dogfight for land battles too so maybe AAA at planes reduce to 2.
    Will have to test this out

  • '17 '16 '15

    Hi Baron

    yea works the same for shooting at planes. You just get 2 shots instead of 3. Only thing missing imo is there isn’t a mobile version. Maybe make it towable as SS suggests. Or have a self propelled one as well for 5 bucks. Idk.

    At any rate, been using them for a couple years now and I like how they work.


  • I edited in my last post that there is one round of dogfighting so the AAA plane hits may have to go to 2.

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