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Subjective Complaints about AAZ (Zombies are stupid thread)


  • 2019 2018

    In my defense, I’m only planning on buying the game if it’s actually worth buying (which it likely won’t be, judging by the apparently miserable size of the map on the back of the box that was revealed a few days back).

    Like I said in my previous posts, I can understand (but can’t relate to, it’s just a board game to me) people being offended by the shameless, quasi-disrespectful cash-grabby nature of the game, but I cannot for the life of me understand why you’d quit G40 (or any other edition of A&A, for that matter) over a separate game that should rise or fall on its own merits (or lack thereof).


  • 2017

    I intend to buy this game.

    I understand the complaints about this title. But to me it is just a board game. If you don’t like it don’t buy it. I’m buying this for a bit of variety new pieces etc. It will probably become just like the original E/P Dday Guadalcanal and just get pillaged for pieces.

    I’ve already looked at the zombie rules and plan to house rule them into a type of historical plague. Similar to influenza, dysentery, spoiled rations or many others. Since this was something I have been distracted from but considering for a long time. Large casualty battle fields are likely to be a source of diseases. I just won’t use the term zombie. WW1 influenza epidemic sound familiar to anyone?

    Plus my daughter isn’t interested in AnA but was interested in playing the version with the zombies… maybe this will get her interested in the franchise.

    Looking for the positive rather than the ridiculous in this title. Their system may work well as an expansion for my games House Rules. At least



  • Aside from the Zombies themselves, there are no new sculpts with this game, so buying this just for pieces seems wasteful, every unit in AAZ is already available from multiple sources (except the zombies)


  • 2017 2016

    @Rank:

    Plus my daughter isn’t interested in AnA but was interested in playing the version with the zombies… maybe this will get her interested in the franchise.

    That’s going to be the case in my home… I’m not really interested in the zombies personally, but anything to get my kids more into daddy’s A&A is a plus with me, and I know my son, who is big into zombies, will be attracted to this angle.



  • @robert:

    Quitting A&A because of a new game is the wrong approach.
    Not buying this game or future games by WOTC is the correct way.
    You have already bought the games, so WOTC has been supported.
    Now, not buying this will send a better message and not come across as a knee-jerk reaction of an upset person.

    On the bright side, WOTC IS including money with this game so maybe they are listening to one of the biggest gripes people have with the A&A line.

    I agree with a lot of this, but my worry is if this game tanks because it is miserable gimmicky garbage, then WOTC might decide that A&A not is worth it anymore, and mis-ascribe the reasons to it being A&A instead of it being gal-durned Zombies.



  • Nothing new has been released for WWII A&A since 2012.

    Even then, it was a reprint and errata edition.

    So, 6 years later, they release a new concept which includes zombies.

    This won’t affect their thoughts on the core A&A if it bombs as they already have given up on the franchise.

    I think A&A Anniv. and Global 1940 are the pinnacle of what you can do with this game.

    HBC has released other versions (earlier starts/more complex) but I doubt WOTC want to go this route.



  • @robert:

    Nothing new has been released for WWII A&A since 2012.

    I think A&A Anniv. and Global 1940 are the pinnacle of what you can do with this game.

    I agree with this statement. I believe the A&A franchise has reached it’s developmental end. Whether WOTC wants to admit this or not, the fact that Larry Harris is not even involved with this project is telling….

    Now, there will always be companies like HBG and The War in Vietnam that could or should be the logical successors to A&A; however, I don’t foresee WOTC having the imagination to either pick them up OR build upon their ideas to continue or expand the game.


  • Disciplinary Group Banned

    A&A gets monotonous after you get to a certain skill level. You do the same strategy over, and over again. That is the main complaint for A&A games. So this zombie game will definitely won’t be a improvement. It’s a theme to attract people that like zombies. It is a poor attempt to get more people interest in A&A.



  • @Dauvio:

    A&A gets monotonous after you get to a certain skill level.

    And chess dont ? Even with the Fischer set up, after 8 turns it looks like a casual game



  • I don’t think it is meant to get people interested in A&A at all.
    A side benefit maybe, but they already have an intro A&A game.

    If successful, it might turn into a Risk type strategy. That is, overlay various themes on the core system.
    Risk Transformers/Risk StarWars/…


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @robert:

    If successful, it might turn into a Risk type strategy. That is, overlay various themes on the core system.
    Risk Transformers/Risk StarWars/…

    That’s quite an interesting theory, and personally I think the concept might hold a lot of promise if it was used correctly by WotC.  A good example of what I mean by “used correctly” is a game that has actually been published: A&A WWI 1914, which fits the concept of the A&A game system being overlayed onto a different historical war than WWII.  The same could be done with other historical wars, though the potential choices aren’t actually as vast as thousands of years of military history would imply because only the past two or three centuries offer any credible scope for a war having theatres all over the world.  Fantasy-type overlays, on the other hand (zombies and so forth), would be a very different evolutionary direction that I’d be unhappy with.


  • 2019 2018

    As someone who isn’t as overly harsh on AAZ as most of the board, I have no idea why WOTC thought Zombies was a safer play than, say…

    • Axis and Allies: Korea (bonus points for being a topical subject)

    • Axis and Allies: Cold War goes Hot (Not that it would ever compare with Twilight Struggle, but some say A&A doesn’t compare with other WW2 Wargames, so whatever)

    • Axis and Allies: Civil War (I think even Larry expressed interest in this at one point or another)

    • Axis and Allies: Napoleon (Bonus Points for having multiple setups for different Coalition Wars)

    • Axis and Allies: Rome (which I guess would just be Conquest of the Empire, if you really think about it)

    They could even do a fictional, modern-day scenario similar to what HBG is doing with Meltdown: 2020 (or whatever it’s called I don’t remember).



  • zombies are still a hot topic although definitely on the decline.

    A&A for other eras would probably just need a clever sales pitch.

    Risk Napoleonics is a good game but limited to Europe and only released in French.

    The Roman conquests would be a similar area-Europe/Africa/Middle East.

    Don’t remember how far north Alexander went, he did go east a fair bit.

    Civil War and Korea might be a bit small an area to game. We will have to see how Vietnam plays to know how smaller conflicts work.


  • Disciplinary Group Banned

    @DouchemanMacgee:

    As someone who isn’t as overly harsh on AAZ as most of the board, I have no idea why WOTC thought Zombies was a safer play than, say…

    • Axis and Allies: Korea (bonus points for being a topical subject)

    • Axis and Allies: Cold War goes Hot (Not that it would ever compare with Twilight Struggle, but some say A&A doesn’t compare with other WW2 Wargames, so whatever)

    • Axis and Allies: Civil War (I think even Larry expressed interest in this at one point or another)

    • Axis and Allies: Napoleon (Bonus Points for having multiple setups for different Coalition Wars)

    • Axis and Allies: Rome (which I guess would just be Conquest of the Empire, if you really think about it)

    They could even do a fictional, modern-day scenario similar to what HBG is doing with Meltdown: 2020 (or whatever it’s called I don’t remember).

    They should do something with space, like the solar system, and beyond. 🙂



  • for space, you would need a sh*t load of transports to go from one planet to the next.

    It would be interesting though, 5 galaxies fighting for control of the universe.



  • @robert:

    A&A for other eras would probably just need a clever sales pitch.

    Risk Napoleonics is a good game but limited to Europe and only released in French.

    Axis and Allies Napoleonic Wars already exists, it just wasn’t made by WotC and doesn’t have “A&A” in the title, but Worthington Games “War and Peace” IS 100% Axis and Allies in the Napoleonic setting… if this intrigues you, you should pick up a copy… there’s a discussion about it on the “other games” section at the bottom of this forum.


  • 2019 2018

    @Nowhere:

    Axis and Allies Napoleonic Wars already exists, it just wasn’t made by WotC and doesn’t have “A&A” in the title, but Worthington Games “War and Peace” IS 100% Axis and Allies in the Napoleonic setting… if this intrigues you, you should pick up a copy… there’s a discussion about it on the “other games” section at the bottom of this forum.

    Not the person you were replying to, but thanks for the tip. The French Revolutionary Wars is my favorite war-related historical period other than the WW1-Interwar-WW2 era, so I’ll be sure to check it out.



  • @DouchemanMacgee:

    Not the person you were replying to, but thanks for the tip.

    Also, on your earlier post, you mentioned the desire to see a US Civil War version of A&A… oddly enough, I read the designer’s notes to War and Peace… he specifically mentioned A&A as being his template for W&P, but he actually originally started work on Civil War version of A&A… he switched to Napoleonic Wars because he didn’t like the 1 vs 1 nature of the Civil War and that the A&A system didn’t really work well with only two belligerent sides for the whole game, so he switched to Napoleonic Europe for more belligerent nations to work with.


  • Customizer

    OMG …

    So I am out of the loop for a few years while life gets busy, come back on here hoping for a new Axis & Allies game, and this is what they come up with?

    … omg …

    Well, if A&A survived Guadalcanal, it can survive this.

    …first Metal Gear Survive and now this …



  • @jim010:

    OMG …

    So I am out of the loop for a few years while life gets busy, come back on here hoping for a new Axis & Allies game, and this is what they come up with?

    … omg …

    Well, if A&A survived Guadalcanal, it can survive this.

    …first Metal Gear Survive and now this …

    FWIW, I thought A&A survived Bulge…that game was…not good…



  • I had a lot of hopes and dreams for the possibility of A&A being continued without its legendary creator, but those were smashed with bloody zombies.  Although I won’t be quitting A&A anytime soon, the lack of fresh appeal in the franchise is slowly taking away my game players.  Alternate setups and house rules help but take too long to perfect to keep the less interested crowd from leaving after they’ve tried every strategy they wanted to.

    I don’t get angry often or use such foul language but—

    Fuck you WotC.  Fuck you.


  • 2018 2017

    @Charles:

    I had a lot of hopes and dreams for the possibility of A&A being continued without its legendary creator, but those were smashed with bloody zombies.  Although I won’t be quitting A&A anytime soon, the lack of fresh appeal in the franchise is slowly taking away my game players.  Alternate setups and house rules help but take too long to perfect to keep the less interested crowd from leaving after they’ve tried every strategy they wanted to.

    I don’t get angry often or use such foul language but�

    ���� you WotC.  ���� you.

    You could try waiting to see what we actually get and how normal players actually react to this game before cursing WotC out. It’s a thought.

    To me, the best part of this game is that the Zombies are completely optional. Nothing about this game requires you to put one (1) Zombie figure on the board, if that’s the way you and yours wish to play.

    So let’s relax and wait to see how things actually turn out, for a change.

    -Midnight_Reaper


  • 2019 2018

    @Charles:

    I had a lot of hopes and dreams for the possibility of A&A being continued without its legendary creator, but those were smashed with bloody zombies.  Although I won’t be quitting A&A anytime soon, the lack of fresh appeal in the franchise is slowly taking away my game players.  Alternate setups and house rules help but take too long to perfect to keep the less interested crowd from leaving after they’ve tried every strategy they wanted to.

    I don’t get angry often or use such foul language but�

    ���� you WotC.  ���� you.

    To be fair, G40 was Larry’s love letter to the fans and basically the peak of what Axis & Allies can be without becoming overly complicated (GW1936) or a proper War Game. I doubt the franchise is going to go in the “bigger and more in-depth” direction for a while, if ever again.

    If bigger and more in-depth if what you want, we have an entire sub-forum for the Global War series, which is an evolution of A&A built to be more complex, with more nation-specific rules/details, special events (Spanish Civil War, US Entry into the war), etc. I’m not shilling or anything (I don’t own any GW products myself), but it might be the thing for you.



  • @DouchemanMacgee:

    @Charles:

    I had a lot of hopes and dreams for the possibility of A&A being continued without its legendary creator, but those were smashed with bloody zombies.  Although I won’t be quitting A&A anytime soon, the lack of fresh appeal in the franchise is slowly taking away my game players.  Alternate setups and house rules help but take too long to perfect to keep the less interested crowd from leaving after they’ve tried every strategy they wanted to.

    I don’t get angry often or use such foul language but�

    ���� you WotC.  ���� you.

    To be fair, G40 was Larry’s love letter to the fans and basically the peak of what Axis & Allies can be without becoming overly complicated (GW1936) or a proper War Game. I doubt the franchise is going to go in the “bigger and more in-depth” direction for a while, if ever again.

    If bigger and more in-depth if what you want, we have an entire sub-forum for the Global War series, which is an evolution of A&A built to be more complex, with more nation-specific rules/details, special events (Spanish Civil War, US Entry into the war), etc. I’m not shilling or anything (I don’t own any GW products myself), but it might be the thing for you.

    Yep. This was Larry’s attempt to make a “convention” play all day for one game.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Although I personally dislike the AAZ concept and although I can understand why it might provoke a visceral negative reaction in devoted fans of the game (I had pretty much the same reaction myself when I first heard about the game), I think that its place in the developmental history of A&A shouldn’t be overblown at this stage.  Depending on what happens to A&A over the next decade or so, we’ll eventually be able to look back on AAZ and make an informed assessment of its significance (or lack thereof).  At the moment, there’s no way of telling whether AAZ will ultimately prove to be a misguided one-off statistical blip (which is my hope) or the first manifestation of the decline and fall of the A&A empire (to paraphrase Edward Gibbon).

    CdG mentioned that AAZ has smashed his hopes of A&A being continued without Larry Harris.  My own feeling is that, at this stage, it would be giving AAZ too much credit to conclude that this game will singlehandedly ruin the entire A&A franchise and its 30+ years of history.  If WotC, from this point onward, publishes only “a whole string of wacky reconceptualizations of A&A” (as I described the concept in an earlier post), and abandons the mainstream version of the game altogether, then yes I think it will be fair to see such a development as a franchise-ruining debacle.  If, on the other hand, AAZ ends up being just an oddball exception, then in retrospect it won’t deserve to be regarded as a zombie apocalypse (pun intended) for the overall franchise.  Instead, we’ll simply be in a situation similar to the one that exists for two other iconic board games published by Hasbro: Monopoly and Risk.  Those game have seen all kinds of variant editions produced (including, in the case of Risk, versions based on several sci-fi and fantasy franchises), but the important point to keep in mind is that the mainstream basic version of each game have remained in production right up to the present and continue to be bought and played; it’s actually the variants that have come and gone over the years.  The basic mainstream versions haven’t remained completely static (for example the design gets tweaked / upgraded every now and then, as when Monopoly periodically retires – to great media fanfare – one of its tokens and introduces a new one), but they’re relatively stable and their survival doesn’t depend on maintaining the rapid evolution which is appropriate for the formative years of the game (as we saw with A&A, which originally didn’t even plastic sculpts).  And you could argue that A&A currently has the luxury of having four mainstream versions of the basic game, i.e. four differently-scaled versions in terms of size and complexity: 1941, 1942 2nd ed., the recent Anniversary reprint, and Global 2nd ed.  I see the AAZ game as being a non-mainstream variant, similarly to the WWI 1914 game and the periodically-reprinted D-Day game, not as conventional A&A game.


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