Will The Axis ever win?



  • I’ve just completed my 6th game in a one on one situation of playing both the axis and allies - now we have discovered that the allies power appears to be juts too strong - what are other people’s thoughts on this matter?
    thanks



  • I have won as the Axis in no-bid games.

    It is harder to do as the Axis, but can be done.


  • 2007 AAR League

    It is definitely possible.  In a game i played, Germany and japan met in Moscow, although by the time that happened, there weren’t many pieces left on the board.  :oops: yes, i know my supply lines fell apart, but japan was the saving grace.



  • You will not achieve a 50/50 ratio without a bid. I haven’t lost a single low-luck game as the Allies without a bid, and actually still haven’t lost a low-luck game giving the Axis an 8 IPC bid.



  • The thing the axis face is that the allies can focus all their might on 1 axis player. This is almost impossible to counter the allies just have to make sure that the game lasts long enough for their economy to start ticking in.

    So every game you allow the allies to focus on germany the axis have a verry hard time to win if not impossible odds.



  • I’d say it is very possible to win as the axis. agressive strategy from japan and inf. stacking from Ger. makes it possible. you WANT the allies to go after japan first. I’ve noticed hoaxing the allies into a japan first strategy makes winning much much much more probable. try it out sometime.



  • The problem MuthaRussia is that you are assuming a poor decision / poor choice by the opponent, which is not a good strategy to follow.



  • Yes, the Axis can win.

    😉



  • Oh, I agree the Axis can win. But can they win 50%+ of the time without a bid? Unlikely.



  • Of course they can.

    I aspire to do better than 50%.

    Remember, 50% is just as close to zero as it is to 100%.  You might as well go for the gold.



  • The last three games me and my friends played the Axis have won. We played without NAs. It could be chalked up to bad rolling for the Allies. In one game the entire British fleet was destroyed on G1 by a gutsy and sacrificial air attack. In another game the Axis beat us because I (US) couldn’t convince my n00b friend (UK) to reinforce Russia or anything else for that matter. He simply sat around building up for an attack he was too afraid to launch.



  • What’s your magic trick, Octo? All the evidence I’ve seen from playing against highly-skilled players is that the Axis will lose more times than they will win, yet you think they can easily achieve a 50% ratio? You talk about playing Japan fast and Germany defensively, but that’s nothing new and exactly how I’ve seen the Axis play and they still lose more often than not. Maybe you haven’t had enough experience playing advanced players who don’t make costly logistic mistakes?



  • I found it most interesting that no one thought Switch did anything wrong by capitalizing on the fact I left the Pacific fleet alone, until the game was lost.  After reading the comments, you were most concerned about my leaving Western Europe in a weakend state, although the territory was never held for any length of time.  Switch’s landing were not exactly powder-puff either.  Landing 7 infantry and 7 armor is a significant force.

    Switch clearly believed his defenses in Russia were sufficient towards the end of the game, even to the point where he believed he was robbed on dice rolls.

    I am wondering how many games I will have to win or who I will have to beat to demonstrate that perhaps I am doing something different.



  • Are you back?  You ready for that re-match game?  I already have the thread set up… Say the word and I’ll get ready with Russia 1.

    And again my prediciton:  Germany falls with Russia intact by end of Turn 7.



  • I found it most interesting that no one thought Switch did anything wrong by capitalizing on the fact I left the Pacific fleet alone, until the game was lost.  After reading the comments, you were most concerned about my leaving Western Europe in a weakend state, although the territory was never held for any length of time.  Switch’s landing were not exactly powder-puff either.  Landing 7 infantry and 7 armor is a significant force.

    Switch clearly believed his defenses in Russia were sufficient towards the end of the game, even to the point where he believed he was robbed on dice rolls.

    I am wondering how many games I will have to win or who I will have to beat to demonstrate that perhaps I am doing something different.

    I thought that Switch’s early attack on the Japanese fleet was a huge mistake, well before the game’s conclusion. He could have permanently damaged Japan’s ability to send troops towards Russia if he had island hopped, but he didn’t. He didn’t press correctly there. If he had, Japan would be sending little to no troops westwards. Switch also let the Africa situation get out of hand.

    You did have a couple of very lucky dice rolls, in Western Europe for one. Switch did get dice robbed. That is a fact, not something you can say he was believing incorrectly.

    If you read my quote from earlier:

    Maybe you haven’t had enough experience playing advanced players who don’t make costly logistic mistakes?

    So all you have to do is beat an Allied player that doesn’t make logistic mistakes and without a net effect of luck. You haven’t demonstrated that yet. But I’m being rather hasty. I’ve only seen you play one game where both of you made mistakes, and I’m already saying that you’re doing nothing different.

    But the only different thing you have shown so far is that you like to leave Western Europe relatively undefended. I believe that one lucky dice battle + the fact that the US didn’t come after you much earlier lets this image linger in your head. Every time I have let Western Europe relatively undefended has cost me the game earlier because you get into massive troop trades there + have to worry about defending your capital from amphibious assaults + can no longer trade troops with Russia with all your troops going westerwards. If you don’t kick the Allies out of Western Europe then it’s even messier, of course. If you take your lucky dice out of the equation and have the US in the Pacific much earlier, you have a mess on your hands. This game painted your W. Europe picture rather rosy because of luck and logistics.

    Then you will say that if the US goes KGF that Japan will be unhindered, but I will say that I always completely abandon the East (abandon India + buryatia on turn 1) and even against dual complex builds, which is as fast as you can get, Japan is more often than not late. Sometimes I can manage to crash Moscow on the same turn as Berlin falls (usually with a bid), but that is an Axis loss there too that you will see once you’ve played that scenario a lot of times.

    Oh and I apologize if I’m sounding overly hostile, that’s not my intent to beat up on you with words, Octo. In fact, I’m rooting for you and eagerly awaiting to see a good Axis strategy, because that’s exactly where I started too - I used to play the underdog Axis as much as possible and figure out ways to win, but after getting tromped on by someone very good 3 times in very quick succession I started to look the other way. Switch came to the board just as fired as you did about the Axis being overpowered, but his point of view has changed a lot since then as well (although we still do have our differences, we do agree that the Axis is underopwered in Revised).



  • I am STILL not to the point of saying the Axis is underpowered…

    They are just more restricted in what they can get away with and still win 🙂

    Though to be honest, that last game I played against AAJAX was a beotch!  THAT game made me start to consider the POSSIBILITY that the Axis might need a bid in Revised 😛



  • hehe, don’t sweat it.

    😄

    the devil is indeed in the details.

    i am wondering…do you have specific details on the combats you believe Switch got robbed on?  We could analyze those in more details and I think you will find there was nothing out of the ordinary going on, including the final Russian battle.



  • Forget Game 1… Game 2 is underway.

    And this time I am NOT screwing around.  Germany dead in 7 or less, with Russia still standing.  :mrgreen:



  • Uh, Switch?

    It’s turn 7 and I just finished Germany’s moves.

    😄



  • Yea, yea… and you are NOT playing the same Germany you did last game.

    Your Japan play is very similar (just some tweeking), but your Germany play is so drastically improved that it is truly remarkable.

    If you had played Germany as you did last game, you would have been dead 2 rounds ago.  But THIS game, with your improved play, I am scrambling to keep up the pressure.



  • Why on Earth would I play Germany the same way I did last game?  I did mention I made a few discoveries with Germany, perhaps I understated what I learned.

    @ncscswitch:

    If you had played Germany as you did last game, you would have been dead 2 rounds ago. But THIS game, with your improved play, I am scrambling to keep up the pressure.

    what pressure?



  • Oh, you mean like Germany’s current land being 19?

    19 Allied divisions (most of them ARM with a few FIGs) in Paris?  SOUTHERN in US hands?

    If I could free up some Russian forces to send west, it would be SERIOUS pressure.  Instead it is only pressure 😛



  • Well, I guess that solves that.

    The game has ended, and the Axis are once again victorious.

    Fanfare

    So I suppose the Axis can win.



  • wow,

    with G down to 19 IPC’s and still you made the axis win?
    this means J was gigantic strong???
    and wiped out R?
    and got to the rescue of G after that?

    interesting!!!
    (you can tell me more if you want)



  • By the way,

    I guess my friends and I came to the same conclusion:
    axis can win for sure, but they are not allowed to make ANY mistakes if allies are playing good!
    if axis screw up one time, they are smashed!

    allies can win more easily. they have an economic advantage to begin and if they screw up, axis come closer to the IPC value, but not to drastically.
    allies have a marging to win…

    so, axis may not make any mistake! while allies can make one or 2 and still win the game…


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