G40- Alternate China Rules



  • The Nationalist Chinese start with control over Sikang, Szechwan, Yunnan, Hunan, Kweichow, Anhwe, Hopei, Tsanghai, and Kansu. They have 9 IPCs to start with. Their capital is Szechwan, but it isn’t a victory city. Szechwan acts like a capital in all other respects. The Nationalists may buy artillery if the Burma Road is open. However, this artillery must be placed in either Szechwan or an IC. The Nationalists start with 1 US fighter unit in Szechwan, the Flying Tigers. This unit operates under all of the normal rules, with one exception: The US may build one fighter and one tactical bomber in Calcutta in the game. The US and Chinese may divide the cost any way they wish. This is an additional part of the Flying Tigers. These units may not be used until the Burma Road is open, during which it must fly to Szechwan as soon as possible. Once it arrives in Szechwan, the Chinese may use it as Flying Tiger units. The Burma Road, when open, grants the Nationalists +6 in bonus income.

    The Communist Chinese start with control over Shensi, Suiyuan, and Chahar. They have 3 IPCs. The Chinese Communists do not have a capital. They may build only infantry. The USSR may, however, send any one unit per turn into any Chinese Communist-controlled territory, where they become Chinese Communist. Communist units may move into Kwangtung and Burma, just like Nationalist ones.

    If the Axis take a Nationalist territory, and the Communists recover it, it becomes Communist. The same rule applies in vice versa. Also, once the Axis have been eliminated from all Chinese land zones (including Kwangtung and Burma), the civil war starts up again. Each side gains +1 IPC of bonus income for every territory of the other side that they’ve conquered.

    Also, the Nationalists may engage in R&D, as long as Szechwan is unoccupied. They may develop:

    Advanced Artillery
    US Aid (replaces War Bonds)
    Long-Range Aircraft (but the Flying Tigers may still not leave Chinese territory)
    Jet Fighters


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016

    I suppose you might get somewhat better realism that way. It sounds historically accurate, and there’s some obvious fun/interest in allowing for more outside aid.

    Would you allow Chinese Communists and Nationalists to stack up in the same territory for mutual defense? E.g. can I send Communist infantry to Szechuan to help defend there? If not, then that significantly weakens the overall Chinese defense – the Japanese can crush the Nationalists easily on the first couple turns, and then both the Nationalists and the Communists will each be separately too weak to put up meaningful resistance.

    I think allowing the Russians to send mechs, allowing America to build and send two additional planes, etc., is somewhat unbalancing because it’s the sort of the thing the Allies can do regardless of diplomatic status. Normally, Russia has to declare war on Japan in order to send aid to China, which is risky for Russia because it exposes their Siberian flank. Ditto the USA; the USA often wants to go to war against Japan but can’t do so. So by allowing both countries to send aid to China even when they’re at peace, you’re providing China with a major advantage, while also sort of flattening the flow of the game – instead of having some games where Japan focuses on China and crushes China, and other games where Japan fights a multi-front war and China receives some aid from other Allies that helps it stay strong, you would just have China receiving aid in every single game.

    Right? Like, when would America not buy a couple extra planes for China? When would Russia not send in at least a couple units to support the Communists? What if, around turn 8, the entire Moscow stack retreats through Kazakhstan to China? Can the Communists operate with a 50-unit Russian army and use that army to walk into Shanghai?



  • I do see your point. The US sending in additional Flying Tigers is seen by Japan as an act of war, and therefore, the US cannot buy Flying Tigers until turn 4. Although I do see your point about how this strengthens China. However, they can only do this if Burma Road is fully open, which by turn 4 is not likely. Also, this makes up for several Nationalist handicaps: having an ordinary capital, -3 IPCs for the Communists, and restrictions on artillery placement. It likely does give China a bit more strength, though. Perhaps the US should only be allowed to send in 1 air unit, and have China pay for it in full? As for Russia, they can only send units in via a shared Chinese Communist-USSR border, and these units become Communist Chinese, meaning that they cannot enter Russia again. Theoretically, yes, the Russians could bulk up the Chinese Communists to the point where they can take Shanghai without a problem, but only at the expense of units that are needed to fight Germany, and I can’t see anyone prioritizing Shanghai over Moscow.

    The Communists and Nationalists can share territories.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016

    Yeah, that’s another problem – what happens if the US buys planes in India and then the Japanese cut off the Burma road before America’s next turn? Are the planes just trapped there, useless, in India? Do they help defend India? Can the USA send Flying Tigers earlier than turn 4 if Japan declares war on the UK on turn 1? Can new Flying Tigers participate in a battle on their ‘maiden voyage’ en route from India to Szechuan?

    I can’t see a divided Nationalist China wanting to spend its entire 10 IPC income on a second Flying Tiger. If China has to spend its own money, you’d almost always be better off with infantry and artillery.

    The thing about Shanghai is that if Germany and Russia have fought each other to a standstill at the gates of Moscow, then normally the USA will have to focus on Europe for a while in order to contain a growing German monster, which can open the door for Japan to sneak by with a marginal victory in the Pacific (e.g. Shanghai, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Manila, Calcutta, Sydney). The Russian stack near Moscow can’t hope to hold Moscow forever if the Germans keep assaulting it – but if the Russians retreat toward Shanghai, then they can often reach Shanghai just in time to prevent a Japanese victory while America focuses 100% on Europe and takes Paris and Rome or Berlin. If the Germans try to chase the retreating Russian stack east into China, they’ll be way too far away to deal with Cairo or defend Berlin. Not something that would happen every game, perhaps, but frustrating and unsatisfying when it does happen: the point of taking Moscow is that it finally shuts off Russian production and freezes the growth of the Russian uber-stack, decoupling that huge stack of units from any source of income/reinforcements. But if you convert the Russians into Chinese Communists, then the Chinese communists can use their income to slowly add to the Russian stack, even after Moscow is gone.



  • Under G40 timelines, US has not sent the Tigers into China. The airforce for China should be USSR and they should have a fighter and tactical bomber as that is about what the Chinese Air Force was when USSR was supplying their pilots.



  • @Argothair:

    Yeah, that’s another problem – what happens if the US buys planes in India and then the Japanese cut off the Burma road before America’s next turn? Are the planes just trapped there, useless, in India? Do they help defend India? Can the USA send Flying Tigers earlier than turn 4 if Japan declares war on the UK on turn 1? Can new Flying Tigers participate in a battle on their ‘maiden voyage’ en route from India to Szechuan?

    I can’t see a divided Nationalist China wanting to spend its entire 10 IPC income on a second Flying Tiger. If China has to spend its own money, you’d almost always be better off with infantry and artillery.

    The thing about Shanghai is that if Germany and Russia have fought each other to a standstill at the gates of Moscow, then normally the USA will have to focus on Europe for a while in order to contain a growing German monster, which can open the door for Japan to sneak by with a marginal victory in the Pacific (e.g. Shanghai, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Manila, Calcutta, Sydney). The Russian stack near Moscow can’t hope to hold Moscow forever if the Germans keep assaulting it – but if the Russians retreat toward Shanghai, then they can often reach Shanghai just in time to prevent a Japanese victory while America focuses 100% on Europe and takes Paris and Rome or Berlin. If the Germans try to chase the retreating Russian stack east into China, they’ll be way too far away to deal with Cairo or defend Berlin. Not something that would happen every game, perhaps, but frustrating and unsatisfying when it does happen: the point of taking Moscow is that it finally shuts off Russian production and freezes the growth of the Russian uber-stack, decoupling that huge stack of units from any source of income/reinforcements. But if you convert the Russians into Chinese Communists, then the Chinese communists can use their income to slowly add to the Russian stack, even after Moscow is gone.

    Perhaps I should alter the rule so that only 1 unit per turn may be converted?


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016

    Makes sense to me. 1 unit, 2 units, even 3 units a turn would be fine. Just not unlimited units.



  • Maybe you should boost the Communists and perhaps the Nationalists too with some more infantry or, even more fun, artillery?  China is weak already.  A tweaked setup could easily make this fun and balanced.  Japan has the advantage of dividing their enemies while the Chinese have more troops.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13

    @Charles:

    Maybe you should boost the Communists and perhaps the Nationalists too with some more infantry or, even more fun, artillery?  China is weak already.  A tweaked setup could easily make this fun and balanced.  Japan has the advantage of dividing their enemies while the Chinese have more troops.

    isbruce lee.png



  • Here’s the new Nationalist and Communist set-ups:

    Nationalists

    Szechwan: 6 infantry, 2 artillery, 1 fighter
    Yunnan: 4 infantry, 1 artillery
    Anhwe: 1 infantry
    Hopei: 1 infantry
    Sikang: 1 infantry
    Kweichow: 2 infantry
    Hunan: 2 infantry

    Communists

    Shensi: 2 infantry, 1 artillery
    Suiyuan: 1 infantry
    Chahar: 3 infantry, 2 artillery



  • Sounds like fun!  I’m going to try to convince the guys to try this!



  • Merci!


  • 2017 2016 2015

    I like this idea as well. Please update with game reports



  • Allright- here it is.

    The Japanese lost without a massive US contribution. The US built a Flying Tiger tactical bomber turn 4, and the Chinese Nationalists managed to keep the Burma Road open for a turn, so it got to Szechwan. The Russian Far East Army was in Novrosibirsik and Samara by turn 5, so the Japanese made the critical mistake of attacking Amur. This enabled the Russians to divert their tactical bomber from Moscow, and fly it to Suiyuan. The Mongolians walked into the Chinese Communist army over the next few turns, and by turn 8, the CCP had:

    8 infantry, 2 of which were Mongolian
    2 artillery
    1 Russian tactical bomber

    The Nationalists had traded Yunnan back and forth four times over the course of the game, and had lost Kwiechow, Anhwe, Hopei, and Hunan. Other than that, they were doing OK, as Szechwan was safe.

    The game ended with a narrow Allied victory on turn 12. The FEC had attacked the Japanese unprovoked on turn 2, and by turn 5 had French Indo-China bulked up heavily, with

    5 infantry
    3 artillery
    2 fighters
    1 tactical bomber
    mIC

    Over the next three turns, they built 3 tanks a turn (they controlled Siam and Sumatra).

    This forced the Japanese to build an IC in Shanghai, and built 3 tanks every turn to keep the Chinese coast safe from either the Nationalists or the FEC. This means that, out of 55 IPCs a turn, they were automatically spending 18 a turn in an arms race where the Chinese were a factor as well. Then, on turn 8, everything cracked. The CCP retook Chahar at the cost of 4 infantry, and received a Russian tank.

    The Nationalist Chinese, who had been playing fairly conservatively, hit Yunnan hard with

    9 infantry
    6 artillery
    1 fighter
    1 tactical bomber.

    They came out of this battle with 3 infantry dead. Finally, the FEC followed up on this with throwing everything they had at Kwangsi. This triple blow wasn’t something the Japanese could immediately counterattack. They started a new line of defence encompassing Jehol, Shantung, Manchuria, and Kiangsu. They also shipped 6 infantry to hold Hong Kong. It wasn’t enough. The Chinese Communists and Japanese wiped each other out in Jehol, while the Nationalists retook Kwiechow, Hunan, and Kiangsi without any difficulties. ANZAC was cooperative enough to eliminate the possible landing spot of Formosa.

    While all of this was going on, the US was focussed chiefly in Europe, where they had done Torch and taken Rome (and were putting its IC to good use!) Normandy had been traded back and forth a few times as well. This had the effect of forcing the Germans to keep 6 infantry in Northern Italy, 2 in Albania, 4 in Yugoslavia, and 1 in Greece. They also had to keep a garrison in Paris, including a fighter to help ward of bombing. This had the effect of the Germans not being able to take Moscow, so there was no immediate danger in Europe. Therefore, the US decided that the time was right to hit the Japanese. On turn 9, they built 3 destroyers, 2 cruisers, and 2 strat. bombers. On turn 10, this all sailed out to Hawaii, as 4 loaded transports came out of WUS. On turn 12, the Japanese (who were down to 12 IPCs a turn, thanks to the Chinese mopping up the northeast, and ANZAC clearing the DEI), succumbed to a US invasion fleet. That same turn, the British captured Paris and Northern Italy, causing Germany to surrender.

    Not all of this was caused directly by a stronger China, but that did influence it. Since China could do more, the Japanese did not gain easy access to the 12 IPCs of the Chinese interior, and only ever captured 6 Chinese territories over the course of the game. And holding these territories was trickier as well, as the Chinese could hit harder. Attacking Russia was a really stupid move on Japan’s part, as it not only opened up a supply route to the Communists (Mongolia), but diverted troops away from India and China. Since Japan had more on its hands, the US could focus more on Europe, contributing to Italy’s early fall and Germany’s inability to take Moscow (although strong Russian play and die-rolls played a part in the latter). Once both Axis powers were under a lot of pressure, the US could simply take Tokyo, thanks in part to good FEC play, but also because China could reconquer the valuable coast, depriving Japan of income. And once Tokyo fell, the German player knew that there was a 0% chance of taking Moscow, Paris, Rome, and Cairo. The Allied advantage in the Pacific was due partially to good FEC play and die-rolls, and the insane decision to attack Russia, but a stronger China also played a part.

    Just for the record, the players were divided up into US/Nat China/France, USSR/CCP, UK/FEC/ANZAC, Japan, and Germany/Italy.


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 17
  • 27
  • 1
  • 23
  • 2
  • 3
  • 56
  • 12
I Will Never Grow Up Games

76
Online

13.5k
Users

33.8k
Topics

1.3m
Posts