Axis Victories (what's the "magic" trick?)

  • TripleA

    Russia 40 inf? Big deal. Germany buys more than Russia g2 and g3 10 units and g4 another 10. Hits g6 add in starting units, air and that is a wrap. G4 air g5 air G6 dead russia unless allies fly in defenses.


  • @Cow:

    Russia 40 inf? Big deal. Germany buys more than Russia g2 and g3 10 units and g4 another 10. Hits g6 add in starting units, air and that is a wrap. G4 air g5 air G6 dead russia unless allies fly in defenses.

    Yeah, I was gonna bring up that Germany can get 30 infantry to Russia with the additions from Finland and Bulgaria.

    The real issue is if Germany can add artillery to that stack.  10 art and 10 tanks with all of Germany’s planes will still win against 50 Russians defending at 2 with 5 or so tanks/planes


  • @Zhukov44:

    If Germany could always conquer Moscow on G5 or G6 or G7……then this would be a pretty boring (and unbalanced) game.  If you can reduce Moscow’s income to >10, then they won’t be able to resist forever.  Use the Wehrmacht’s superior mobility.

    As noted by others, flying a bunch of American and British planes to Moscow is merely a stopgap and not a winning strategy over the long game, because planes there are not very useful strategicially.

    If you get to Bryansk on G5 and Russia responds by turtling, Axis has the strategic advantage–Germany can go pretty much anywhere it wants to go on the map.

    So basically you are playing this on the long term, so 10-11 turns for example. Then it’s indeed possible, to “starve” Moscow to death while exanding with japan. I was just trying to check my facts, that if you want, you can hold Moscow at G6 (perhaps at the cost of losing other thinks).


  • @Cow:

    Russia 40 inf? Big deal. Germany buys more than Russia g2 and g3 10 units and g4 another 10. Hits g6 add in starting units, air and that is a wrap. G4 air g5 air G6 dead russia unless allies fly in defenses.

    We have had over 80 RUSSIAN units defending Moscow around G6. Without allied fighters. What does you Russian player usually buys? If he buys 95% inf and he slowly falls back to Moscow, not risking his main force, he can stack 75-80 units by G6.


  • @weddingsinger:

    @Cow:

    Russia 40 inf? Big deal. Germany buys more than Russia g2 and g3 10 units and g4 another 10. Hits g6 add in starting units, air and that is a wrap. G4 air g5 air G6 dead russia unless allies fly in defenses.

    Yeah, I was gonna bring up that Germany can get 30 infantry to Russia with the additions from Finland and Bulgaria.

    The real issue is if Germany can add artillery to that stack.  10 art and 10 tanks with all of Germany’s planes will still win against 50 Russians defending at 2 with 5 or so tanks/planes

    We usually have for the germans around 25 Inf/art, 25 tanks and 12-15 german planes around G6-G7. Russia then has around 70-75 Inf/canons + 5 tanks/fighters plus some 3-5 allied fightrs. It’s usually a sovjet win (with some 3-5 fighters remaning). Its because when you role the dice, the german inf get’s killed the first round of dice, and then on you start losing tanks versus their inf.


  • @Arthur:

    Trust cow!  He manages to capture Moscow often enough against good players on G5 or G6, and can bail out to other options if the battlecalc shows that the odds are not in his favor.Â

    I trust Cow, but I always do the things he says and it still doesn’t add up 😛


  • @Cornwallis:

    We usually have for the germans around 25 Inf/art, 25 tanks and 12-15 german planes around G6-G7. Russia then has around 70-75 Inf/canons + 5 tanks/fighters plus some 3-5 allied fightrs. It’s usually a sovjet win (with some 3-5 fighters remaning). Its because when you role the dice, the german inf get’s killed the first round of dice, and then on you start losing tanks versus their inf.

    Germany starts the game with about 35 infantry available, if you take Finland and Bulgaria, 5 artillery, and 9 tanks.

    The biggest benefits to your attack are more artillery to make your infantry more valuable and bombing Moscow starting 2 turns after your invasion starts and never stopping.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16

    THIS:

    @Cow:

    I don’t have a problem winning with the axis. Most of my wins come from Germany taking Russia G5, G6, or G7.

    Why? If you strafe yugoslavia g1 and retreat into Romania and lose 2 inf only. You get a decent stack that is ready to hit Russia G5 assuming you move it towards Russia each round. If you hit too much, that is okay, the G6 attack has better odds because you add in the bulgaria stack and the norway/finland stack as well. 
    There are concessions you have to make. You have to give up norway/finland, usually empty west germany and hold Germany the round before you attack Russia (you buy bombers to max your odds of winning Russia so you aren’t buying inf the round before a major battle).

    I have had to give up france to take Russia many times. Retaking france is much easier than taking Russia, but it can take 2-4 rounds (Germany’s income goes really high from Russia, volgograd, and caucasus… and if you are pushing into the middle east for the VC win (which you should be doing) it goes even higher.

    G7 Russia sometimes happens when things are going so well that 80% chances at Russia is stupid when waiting a round yields 99%. Like those blow out games happen sometimes in dice where you get to buy mech/armor g4 on germany (g5 mech/armor placements on germany are silly because they simply don’t hit Russia on g7).

    Typically G4 you buy inf to hodlgang and bombers because that is what reaches russia for the final attack (armor on novgorod/ukraine if you got it).
    ~

    I do not dow Russia g3 so I can’t comment on later attacks of Russia. I always dow russia G1 or G2 (fast game or standard play depending on how much time I have).

    So that is that.

    ~

    In the Pacific I go into every game with the high hopes of winning in the Pacific. It happens sometimes. Crush india J3 or J4 and hope things are going well enough to take Hawaii someday.  Sometimes it happens, sometimes I bust, sometimes I am forced to just have Japan, India, SEA, and all my ships air died, but hey I gave it a go!

    Cornwallis, it is not allways like copy a style and expect to win.
    This is a very good layed out Plan from Cow.
    Study this, catch the Details (i highlighted a few ,not all) and sharpen your skills from Game to Game and add slowly your scent to it.

    There is no magic, just sharpen your skills!


  • As Germany my motto is attack where they are weakest. Not strongest. If Moscow has 80 inf bypass it and mop up IPCs until he is forced to attack you.


  • So, what are the German buys if you attack Russia G1?  What about G2?

    Do you still get 2 bombers on G1?  Or is a metric ton of artillery the way to go?

    Any inf/art purchased on G1 can reach Moscow G6; G2 you can reach G7.  That could be an extra 17 artillery (plus, what, tanks?  6 tanks on G2?)

    And is it a big deal to attack G1 since UK will now not have to worry about Sea Lion?

  • 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15

    @weddingsinger:

    So, what are the German buys if you attack Russia G1?�  What about G2?

    Do you still get 2 bombers on G1?�  Or is a metric ton of artillery the way to go?

    Any inf/art purchased on G1 can reach Moscow G6; G2 you can reach G7.�  That could be an extra 17 artillery (plus, what, tanks?�  6 tanks on G2?)

    And is it a big deal to attack G1 since UK will now not have to worry about Sea Lion?

    If you attack G1 you need fast movers, like 1 arm 6 mech, If you plan on G6 attck on Moscow its better with 6 art and 2 inf
    If you plan on a G1 or G2 attack on Russia I would not buy bombers G1 or G2. If you plan on G3 attack you can buy a few bombers on G1 or G2


  • @oysteilo:

    If you attack G1 you need fast movers, like 1 arm 6 mech, If you plan on G6 attck on Moscow its better with 6 art and 2 inf
    If you plan on a G1 or G2 attack on Russia I would not buy bombers G1 or G2. If you plan on G3 attack you can buy a few bombers on G1 or G2

    And that doesn’t cause issues with UK’s buy?

    I’m thinking G1 I need bombers no matter what because with a G1 attack I take Eastern Poland (or Italy does on their turn), G2 you land 4 bombers on it, G3 you start bombing Moscow.

  • 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15

    It’s all about your goal. If you want to try to take moscow on G5, you need fast movers on g1 and g2. Planes on g3 and bombers g4. You can’t worry about what uk is doing. If you want g6 moscow you add the art on g1, otherwise the same.

    I dont think you should focus on landing bombers in eastern poland in order to hit moscow, because you dont have fighter escorts. Basically it is your bombers, more than 3 is silly, against his fighters. Remember it is not unlikely to have only one bomber left after intercept and AA guns. That sucks. The risk is too big

    Also, dont get distracted, head straight for moscow.

  • 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16

    @oysteilo:

    Also, dont get distracted, head straight for moscow.

    That’s the real secret to Axis victory – focus on the objective and don’t give up the initiative to the Allies. That doesn’t mean that you don’t respond to the Allies, but it does mean that you keep your eyes on the prize while making sure the Allies can’t wreck your day!

    Marsh

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19

    Re Germany Sea Lion if Brit doesn’t build defensively on B1.  In a game earlier this year, G1 built ground troops, so I as Brit, built no ground units in London, instead built in S. Afr and dd in Canada and sub off London.  So G2 built tt’s and bombed London.  Brit AA rolled snake eyes, killing both Ger bombers.  That allowed me to build inf without spending on repairs and Ger had no bombers for Sea Lion.  He attacked anyway and rolled until he lost everything and conceded the game on G3.  But I don’t tempt fate like that anymore.  Pure luck of the dice.

  • '18

    I’ve found that the game is Japans to lose and must be played that way.  Japan can opt to not make a DOW against anyone but china and get calcutta and kwantung consistantly by T3, and if you wait for T4 you can have the philipines as well, which puts you only one VC away from winning.  The USA must put a lot of IPCs towards stopping this, and by doing so, allows the Germans and the I-Ties a pretty good reign over europe and can slug their way to moscow.  My group views getting Italy’s income into the 30’s by the time the US is coming over for the Axis to be in strong position, and i view turns 7-9 as the turns that the Allies need to be turning the corner in IPC and unit advantage.  Just my thoughts.  Good Luck!

    AW

  • '19 '17 '16

    @Aaron_the_Warmonger:

    I’ve found that the game is Japans to lose and must be played that way.  Japan can opt to not make a DOW against anyone but china and get calcutta and kwantung consistantly by T3, and if you wait for T4 you can have the philipines as well, which puts you only one VC away from winning.  The USA must put a lot of IPCs towards stopping this, and by doing so, allows the Germans and the I-Ties a pretty good reign over europe and can slug their way to moscow.  My group views getting Italy’s income into the 30’s by the time the US is coming over for the Axis to be in strong position, and i view turns 7-9 as the turns that the Allies need to be turning the corner in IPC and unit advantage.  Just my thoughts.  Good Luck!

    AW

    Hold on, are you saying that Japan not doing a DOW until turn 3 then results in Calcutta’s capitulation on the same turn as the DOW?

    How? Wouldn’t the UK put down a blocker in SZ37?

  • '20 '19 '18

    @simon33:

    @Aaron_the_Warmonger:

    I’ve found that the game is Japans to lose and must be played that way.  Japan can opt to not make a DOW against anyone but china and get calcutta and kwantung consistantly by T3, and if you wait for T4 you can have the philipines as well, which puts you only one VC away from winning.  The USA must put a lot of IPCs towards stopping this, and by doing so, allows the Germans and the I-Ties a pretty good reign over europe and can slug their way to moscow.  My group views getting Italy’s income into the 30’s by the time the US is coming over for the Axis to be in strong position, and i view turns 7-9 as the turns that the Allies need to be turning the corner in IPC and unit advantage.  Just my thoughts.  Good Luck!

    AW

    Hold on, are you saying that Japan not doing a DOW until turn 3 then results in Calcutta’s capitulation on the same turn as the DOW?

    How? Wouldn’t the UK put down a blocker in SZ37?

    As long as you are not at war the UK is not able to block the Japanese fleet, meaning you can have your entire fleet near/in front of Calcutta before declaring war and invading on that same turn.
    However I feel it is unlikely that you can take Calcutta with just the troops and fleet that are able to reach without any land-based air support.

    In a recent game I went for a Calcutta crush, where I was able to capture it on J3. However that required a J1 DOW to clear at least the BB in SZ37. On J2: Defeating most of the UK pacific fleet, capturing Malaya, capturing shan state, plus taking out the forces in Burma with my airforce (so a counter on shan state was impossible) and building an airbase in FIC for the planes to reach Calcutta and a naval base in Hainan.

    J3 all available aircrafts + 6 loaded transports to attack Calcutta. If the UK build their defenced right, you will likely have to offer up some planes to take Calcutta and if they are able to take Shan State back in UK2, it will delay the landing on Calcutta by a turn (in which Japan lands on a number of the money islands

  • '19 '17 '16

    @Quirky:

    However I feel it is unlikely that you can take Calcutta with just the troops and fleet that are able to reach without any land-based air support.

    My exact point.

    To prevent blockers, Japan has to put fleets in two SZs. It can’t do any blockers if it isn’t at war - UK would be able to put a DD in SZ37 which would stop the transports coming from SZ36. If Japan takes FIC, they can at least get the CVs to do double duty - catch land based planes and launch planes to land on FIC.

    Yeah, it is theoretically and actually possible to get Calcutta J3 with a J1 DOW but UK should be able to prevent it if they don’t make a misstep. Perhaps that just delays to J4 and only 0-3 inf built.

  • '18

    With my group, the UK is loathe to DOW on japan until after J3.  T1 with the japs i like to get a naval base on kwangsi.  You can get 3TT and your carriers with planes on SZ36.  T2 you can get all that to calcutta if no teams are at war.  If your carriers are sitting off of calcutta (with other navy, not just carriers and TTs) in SZ39 and you have 6 planes on kwangsi, 6 planes on carriers, and your 2 SBs are located correctly, you can, on J3, lay siege to calcutta with 14 planes (various types) and 4-6 ground units.  If you don’t mind taking planes as soaks, it is almost overwhelming bc the calcutta doesn’t have enough income to match their buy with your planes firepower.  And if you are already in SZ39, they can’t effectively attack you, they don’t have the firepower.  And if calcutta makes a very early DOW, they lose their US shield advantage and Japan has overwhelming superiority to mop them up and get island money almost unopposed.  And i i take Calcutta on T3, i get their income, and an addition 3 for holding it, and 5 for NO.  So even though i didn’t get island money, i still go up at least 25 for the turn even if calcutta takes no islands.  Then, with Calcutta having a naval base, i’m in perfect position to crack back for the islands, and use calcutta as my MC instead of buying one.  This assumes that he doesn’t just hole up all available units in calcutta, but if they do, then that means japan holds Yunnan and can use its buys to get all 20 some odd planes to calcutta.

    AW

  • '19 '17 '16

    Hmm, so presumably UK will activate Sumatra UK1, ANZAC will activate Java A1.

    If ANZAC puts all 3 planes on Java do you then DOW J2 and hit that?

    My calc is that this attack will not succeed with a maximum defence unless land based planes can be brought in, even without the ANZAC fighters, and ANZAC plane reinforcements make it 42% even then. ANZAC troops would make it even less.

    I think the naval base J1 kind of tips the hand as to what you are thinking. However, I can see that this attack can work quite often. There’s a few moving parts to perfect allied defence against it and it may not all happen. Presumably Japan will still buy a TT J1 and that needs to be blocked out, for example.

  • 2021 '20 '18 '17

    If the planes land on java, ANZAC and UK can screen that invasion
    The naval base does tip your hand
    If UK blocks you, you can still pass at peace and ignore him
    a good way to bungle this plan is to infiltrate the UK DD into his transport fleet, then declare war with ANZAC (he cannot load, or pass through you, and you get bonuses)

    Based on the full committ to demolish calcutta, this is the most opportune moment for USA 100%KJF to threaten to clear/stand off SZ 6 as the Japanese cannot use all of their air, 2 carriers, all their transports and bombardment ships AND defend SZ6.  They are either forced to cancel the invasion or lose control of their interior lines, and if they dont have the naval base, they cannot return home in time.    Not necessarily saying that the US should put all their surface ships in SZ 6 because of potential kami and carrier buys, but they can threaten it, unblockably, if so much of the IJN is down south.

  • '18

    @simon33: can you give me a projected total for what you are saying for calcutta J3?  I often fly my planes from ANZAC to calcutta, as well, and still can’t hold it!  Also, can i assume you will vacate all other available units leaving connecting land territories vacant?  If so, is it fair to assume i should be able to hold Yunnan at the beginning of J3?  Also, on J1 a transport is purchased as well as you assumed.

    Additionally, i understand the UK destroyer then declaring war with ANZAC to foil loading, and that the naval base may be ‘tipping my hand’, but to me its more than that.  If the UK/ANZAC DOWs that early, thats a win for me as japan, if i force UK/ANZAC to pile everything and sit (then i go for islands/kwantung/malaya), i’m ok with that, the naval base makes a very convenient one turn back to japan, or one turn to calcutta, or one turn to the carolines, or one turn to western australia.  From a logistics stand point, it allows me to go a lot of places, and pushes the allies to maybe do something different.  And if i can keep the US off the germans back, then my ‘friends’ in europe should be able to do what they need to do…

  • '19 '17 '16

    Ok, I’m assuming:
    No additional transports for Japan can reach due to blockers.
    DD blocks bombard.
    Sumatra activated UK1 but units return to India UK2
    West India inf still activates Eastern Persia.
    Every other land and air unit goes to India.
    5inf bought UK1, 7inf bought UK2

    Totals for 42%:
    Attackers 3inf 2art 1arm 11ftr 8tac 2sb
    Defenders 20inf 1art 5ftr 1tac 3AA gun

    Have I miscalculated somewhere? In fact, if Sumatra is activated with 2inf from Malaya and they still return, that adds to the defence.

    Regarding the ability of Japan to hold Yunnan, doesn’t that require an all air attack on Szechwan J2? If they do that, they’ll lose planes for the assault on India. Have you considered using Soviet planes and perhaps troops to support that territory? I suppose if the entire air force is there, that option won’t work. You can still attack Yunnan USSR3 with mobile troops + planes if you definitely want to save the Chinese troops by running them up to Shensi as some like to do.

  • '18

    Help me out, i’m not sure how the 2 fighters on new zealend get to india J3 unless the UK takes java T1.  i’m not use to having all ANZAC fighters unitl ANZAC3.

    Additionally, if there is a complete turtle in calcutta, it just opens up a lot of free options for the Japanes, again, a win for japan in my book (the lack of chance of losing if my opponent likes to roll 1s and 2s with his small forces).

    Is a calcutta turtle a standard move in this group?

    Let me know about the fighter thing, i feel like i’m missing something obvious.  If you pull out the 2 fighters the math gets a lot better. And, even though you lose a lot of planes, in this scenario, there is literally nothing left on the board in southeast asia and the islands, and australia isn’t looking much better (of course KJF with no planes is problematic)  
    In general, no, i have not thought of sending USSR planes to calcutta, mostly because the germans are rolling in hard!

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