How to do a succesful Barbarossa?



  • So I am planning to kill Russia as best as I can my next game as Axis. I know I should buy 6 artillery and then mobile units. Italy use can openers. Japan tries to take Siberian countries an defeat India. Are there more things that needs to be done for a succesful Barbarossa? What does Germany do against UK besides G1 naval sinks.



  • One thing that can be easy to miss on the turn you DoW is to put a naval unit in SZ 125 which denies the Soviet player 5 ipcs. You can retreat from Yuogslavia if you are doing a T2 or take it for a T3. It is important that your air force attacks UK boats in the North and in the Med until you start fighting the Soviets. If you are going North with japan normally I put a factory in Manchuria.


  • '16 '15 '10

    1. Dont focus on Siberia with Japan.  Maybe capture Sahka and/or Soviet Far East on turn 2 or 3, but those are secondary objectives.  The best thing Japan can do to help the Western Axis is try to win the game in its own right (get 6 vcs) and thereby force the USA to divert resources to stop it.  So go for India, go for China, go for the islands….be sure Allies don’t get any NOs.

    2. With Germany, focus on destroying the UK and French fleets for the first 2 turns.  In Barbarossa I generally don’t declare until G3.  But all of your purchased resources should be going towards the Barbarossa campaign.


  • 2017

    @KGrimB:

    One thing that can be easy to miss on the turn you DoW is to put a naval unit in SZ 125 which denies the Soviet player 5 ipcs. You can retreat from Yuogslavia if you are doing a T2 or take it for a T3. It is important that your air force attacks UK boats in the North and in the Med until you start fighting the Soviets. If you are going North with japan normally I put a factory in Manchuria.

    Whether or not you do the retreat from Yugo thing does not matter for a G2 DOW. The main thing is that you use the Northern Route which IMHO is the best route to safely make it to Bryansk on G5. Also, I use all 3 tanks from the eastern front, 1 mech from w. germany (doesn’t go to Paris), and the 2 infantry from Denmark. All stack in Poland. Then march to Baltic states on G2. Secure Leningrad on G3 so you can forward build on it immediatley.



  • @Ichabod:

    @KGrimB:

    One thing that can be easy to miss on the turn you DoW is to put a naval unit in SZ 125 which denies the Soviet player 5 ipcs. You can retreat from Yuogslavia if you are doing a T2 or take it for a T3. It is important that your air force attacks UK boats in the North and in the Med until you start fighting the Soviets. If you are going North with japan normally I put a factory in Manchuria.

    Whether or not you do the retreat from Yugo thing does not matter for a G2 DOW. The main thing is that you use the Northern Route which IMHO is the best route to safely make it to Bryansk on G5. Also, I use all 3 tanks from the eastern front, 1 mech from w. germany (doesn’t go to Paris), and the 2 infantry from Denmark. All stack in Poland. Then march to Baltic states on G2. Secure Leningrad on G3 so you can forward build on it immediatley.

    Why do you think that the northern route is superior to the southern route? Also I see that you G2 DOW, will your forces not be divided in this case and Russia can therefore counter your push before reinforcements arrive when they mobilize to the North?



  • You can concider not buying anything on G1, this will force UK to consider Sealion.
    I like the southern route with italian canopeners, where the main target is to get to rostov with a sizable stack, combined with italians. This will force USSR to retreat to moscow, and you can get the Massive NOs cheaply.



  • @Kreuzfeld:

    You can concider not buying anything on G1, this will force UK to consider Sealion.
    I like the southern route with italian canopeners, where the main target is to get to rostov with a sizable stack, combined with italians. This will force USSR to retreat to moscow, and you can get the Massive NOs cheaply.

    I am also considering the southern route, the NO you get from Leningrad can also be gained from waiting with G3 reinforcing countries attacked by I2 and this collecting no war NO, then push to Moscow for G6 attack. This also allows me to advance as 1 big stack while mobile stack can push combined with can openers.

    My question is, how crucial is that G3 buy of 10 more fast movers, in case you bought 6 artillery and 2 infantry in G1 and 10 tanks in G2. My preference would be to buy bombers instead in my G3, but I have no experience with how crucial that third round of 10 mobile troops is.



  • If you go the southern route, USSR has to pull in his forces and leningrad will fall to your navy, cheaply.
    If you go the southern route, you can chose between a moscow assault, or an early move to the middle east. If you assault Moscow, I guess you can use tanks, but if you want to force the Russian to turtle and take the middle east, mechs are the king. In this plan, you should build 20 mech on G2 and 10 mech on G3. You can swich to bombers on G4.
    I am not a fan of the moscow assault, I would rather force the russian to turtle there, while I take everything else. If you get to rostov with a big stack with at least 30 fast-movers and 7+ italians (while russia cant’ counterattack),Russia will have to turtle, or you can canopen with the Italians, and run through the new Italian territory and take Moscow.
    When that happens, you will get Stalingrad, caucasuss and you can start taking the middle east. If you build a mIC in Rostow, you will be able to build 9 art per round, so Moscow will fall soon enough.



  • Interesting. Why are mechs king instead of tanks in letting the Russian player turtle? You could also buy 20 tanks instead of 30 mech for a lot more punch and only 10 less bodies.


  • 2019 2017 '16

    @Afrikakorps:

    Why do you think that the northern route is superior to the southern route? Also I see that you G2 DOW, will your forces not be divided in this case and Russia can therefore counter your push before reinforcements arrive when they mobilize to the North?

    I agree that it is. The northern route forces a split defence of Moscow (blitz via Smolensk) as well as Bryansk. If USSR can’t defend both, they have to pull back to Moscow. That doesn’t apply to the Southern route and a few times I’ve gone that way, I’ve needed to pause in W Ukraine for a turn. Not good for Germany.


  • 2017

    @Afrikakorps:

    @Kreuzfeld:

    You can concider not buying anything on G1, this will force UK to consider Sealion.
    I like the southern route with italian canopeners, where the main target is to get to rostov with a sizable stack, combined with italians. This will force USSR to retreat to moscow, and you can get the Massive NOs cheaply.

    I am also considering the southern route, the NO you get from Leningrad can also be gained from waiting with G3 reinforcing countries attacked by I2 and this collecting no war NO, then push to Moscow for G6 attack. This also allows me to advance as 1 big stack while mobile stack can push combined with can openers.

    My question is, how crucial is that G3 buy of 10 more fast movers, in case you bought 6 artillery and 2 infantry in G1 and 10 tanks in G2. My preference would be to buy bombers instead in my G3, but I have no experience with how crucial that third round of 10 mobile troops is.

    You can get away with less than a minimum of 10 fast movers on G2 and G3 in a table top game where it’s tough to know dice odds.

    But in triplea with the battle calc, if you buy less, and go the southern route, a good allies player might be able to stack Bryansk. Then the UK or Anzac fortify it with fighters and now you’re stuck for at least 1 turn sometimes 2. There is a timetable that Germany is on, and getting to Bryansk on Round 5 is critical IMHO. You buy planes (tac bombers or bombers) on G4 to catch up with the stack later on.



  • If US goes KJF building in Pacific on US1 … consider buying a Major IC in Romania on G2
    Or upgrading a minor IC (bought G1)

    G3 buy of 10 Units in Romania… all reach Ukraine on G4…
    Bryansk G5…
    Moscow on G6 (along with 3 Units bought in Ukraine on G5)

    G2 buy of say 6-8 Units in Germany will also get to Bryansk on G4
    Via G3 - E. Poland
    G4 - Ukraine/W.Ukraine

    Italy buying Tank+Mech on Italy1, moving Albania and N. Italy Tank on Italy 1 to Romania… and keeping its SBR in range of hitting Bryansk on Italy 4 … means USSR has to defend Bryansk with everything…  or keep at least 6 Units there.

    USSR must Land it’s planes in Moscow on R4… if it has to have a fighting chance…

    If not … Italy 4 Can opens Bryansk with 3 Tanks+ Mech + SBR…

    Germany can take Moscow  on G5 with  (9 Tanks + 3 Mechs - start) + (G2 Buy of 3 Tanks+ 3 Mechs) + (G3 buy of 5 Tanks+ 5 Mechs) + Luftwaffe


  • TripleA

    Major ic is lose money. 30 ipc is 5 tank. 5 tank is better.  Think about it, g2 is when you buy all mech and armor if you spend 30 for a major you place 9 or 10 mech at most germany. Better to place west term move two spaces right next turn and it is as if you had a major anyway. Later you going to buy air to attack into Moscow same turn all yonr stuff hits. Usually bomber then bomber then hit.


  • TripleA

    Some players buy all Arty and a sub g1 then time everything to hit with the Arty at Russia.

    Some players don’t like to attack Russia if the Pacific is going well (because if you lose Europe goes to hell) so they go into the middle East for the income and then go to Russia really late like round 10 or 11 for the sure win.

    If I am dead set on attacking Russia G5-G7 I prefer G1 Dow Russia.  Or I buy 1 sub and Arty Dow G2 and shove next to Novgorod. Yes russia can attack and has odds to win if he bought 3 Arty… But you have 3 aa guns which can’t attack Russia. . If Russia comes out +15 you came out on top because 15 is useless for you anyway, then your Germany vs Russia attack is better because you lost your 1 rolls and he lost his 2 rolls.  Ideally Russia wants to strafe and get a plus 20 or more  taking it is bad cos the counter, 15 or under is bad cos Russia really don’t want to attack into aa guns. Russia lose fighter and that is winner winner chicken dinner.



  • @Cow:

    Major ic is lose money. 30 ipc is 5 tank. 5 tank is better.   Think about it, g2 is when you buy all mech and armor if you spend 30 for a major you place 9 or 10 mech at most germany. Better to place west term move two spaces right next turn and it is as if you had a major anyway. Later you going to buy air to attack into Moscow same turn all yonr stuff hits. Usually bomber then bomber then hit.

    If USSR does Tank+Art buys… on G4 Ukraine, USSR can theoretically kill Ukraine German forces.
    A Major IC in Romania on G1/G2 … prevents that from happening.

    Again, that is provided US is going KJF… and US1 build is all Pacific… this is important.

    Japan must defer to J2  or J3  if possible.  Moscow should fall on G6

    Yes Cow, 5 tanks are better… but they will be a turn too late to get to Ukraine…  all hinges on G4 Ukraine being able to hold against an USSR kill attempt on R4


  • 2017

    Mein Herr, you spend 30 IPCs on a major instead of all tanks or a combo of mechs and tanks, you might not push Russia back. I know people think the allies are supposed to just fall back, but not experienced players.

    If Russia buys 6 tanks R1, I often do, than Germany can’t easily just go into e. Poland or Baltic sometimes. If Germany buys a mIC or upgrades it, AND tries to go south, chances are Germany never gets to Bryansk.



  • R1,R2,R3 Buy 6 Tanks = 18 Tanks

    • 3 Art+ 27 Inf  + 2 FTR+ Tac Bomber+ 2 Mechs

    Attacking
    German Ukraine forces on R4
    3 AAA+ 25 Inf+ 5 Art+ 11 Mech+17 Tanks

    Without low- luck is 99.4 % Win for Defense

    I would love you to do that, if I were Germany.


  • 2017

    @MeinHerr:

    R1,R2,R3 Buy 6 Tanks = 18 Tanks

    • 3 Art+ 27 Inf+ 2 FTR+ Tac Bomber+ 2 Mechs

    Attacking
    German Ukraine forces on R4
    3 AAA+ 25 Inf+ 5 Art+ 11 Mech+17 Tanks

    Without low- luck is 99.4 % Win for Defense

    I would love you to do that, if I were Germany.

    Germany buying 6 tanks on round 1? I think the amount is 5.

    Anyways, I don’t see you accounting for buying a mIC on Romania G1 then upgrading to a major.

    Also, you obviously missed a few key points in the discussion or it just went over your head. No one was stating (to include I) that Russia will be able to counter attack whatever German stack you’re sending south to Ukraine or w. Ukraine.

    The point was that if you’re spending 12 IPCs on a mIC, then another 20 IPCs to upgrade it to a major (32 IPCs instead of tanks/mechs that can all catch up to the infantry), you’re not going to have enough stuff to push Russia off Bryansk and into Moscow. If a German player drops a mIC in Romania and upgrades it to a major, I’m going to try to get UK/anzac fighters into postion to land them turn 4 on Bryansk.



  • R1, R2, R3  Buys - 6 Tanks each round is for Russia 1,2,3 (not Germany).

    The modern Offensive is the best Defence theory (for USSR) that seems to be a la mode in our times smiles

    (I did forget to add the original 2 Tanks to that USSR Attack on German forces in Ukraine on R4)

    But, point is that the extra 10 units you get because of the MIC in Romania, the G4 purchase (given the US - KJF)… that go to Ukraine on G5, forces Bryansk evacuation on R5

    Unless Bryansk is cleared on R5, Germany’s options for the Caucasus/Stalingrad/Moscow dwindles down to only Moscow.

    A strong Southern push should empty out Leningrad… or Mosciw falls G6

    This only situational… no UK Navy in Atlantic, minimal US1 build up in Atlantic, strong Italian play in Med, Japan threatening a J2 to put pressure on India… *** especially the Soviet 20 in Far East  withdrawing West to Yakut… headed to Moscow***

    Not meant for all situations.


  • 2017

    @MeinHerr:

    R1, R2, R3  Buys - 6 Tanks each round is for Russia 1,2,3 (not Germany).

    I’ve never heard of buying 6 tanks for Russia several turns in a row. That’s a new strategy to me.

    Where or how do you play G40? If you only play table top, than my question is in your group, do allies players just fall back?



  • Tank buying - maybe not 3 turns… could be 2… Art on 3rd…
    Was referring to “Red Blitz”, which can kill Germany in Ukraine on R4

    https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=38080.0;prev_next=prev


  • 2017

    @MeinHerr:

    Tank buying - maybe not 3 turns… could be 2… Art on 3rd…
    Was referring to Red Blitz, which can kill Germany in Ukraine on R4
       
    https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=38080.0;prev_next=prev

    Ok, interesting. Not heard of that before. Not so sure on how well that plays out. But I do know if the US is coming for Germany, it’s easier for Russia to get away with expensive purchases which can make it really hard for Germany to maintain it’s stack on Bryansk. At a certain point, something gives.



  • I might have said this before, but most allied players might not be using the best strategies.  They typically take the allies at too low of a bid.  And then they win by either extremely good luck or they are playing a newer player who can’t take and hold the two key non-capital points on the map by round 4 or 5.  I’ve won probably 90%+ of my games as axis lately by a simple strategy:  use an odds calc to determine the ipc value gained by destroying allied units +2 *(times) territory value gained by these attacks + national objectives gained by axis + national objectives lost by allies.  If a player does this math for the first two rounds, they will have a very strong opening strat as axis.


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 17
  • 28
  • 14
  • 17
  • 41
  • 3
  • 22
  • 41
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

43
Online

14.0k
Users

34.4k
Topics

1.4m
Posts