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1942.2 Red Bomber or USA First?



  • Hello,

    After reading many answers from different vets on this forum about balancing 1942SE and knowing that we don’t want to play any bid, my friends and me are finally hesitating between two last solutions proposed by some of the most experienced players:

    1. THE RED BOMBER: Simply add a bomber in Russia (This seems to be very efficient to balance but only in the hands of a well experienced player).
    2. AMERICA FIRST: The USA play first before Russia but only to product units so with no movement nor combat (For fast help toward east and west).

    Both solutions are said efficient to balance the game close to 50/50 by the most experienced players of this forum.
    We think about trying the second solution first because it seems more easy to manage for new players?

    Your advices? (Only about those two - No bids nor complicated settings please)

    GG


  • 2017 2016

    Give Axis to less experienced players and Allies to more experienced ones.
    This can be a way to balance things without requiring other twists.

    If Allies lost, give Red Bomber to Allies.

    After 3 games, if all Axis wins, then goes to America First.

    IMO, dicing might occurs one way or another.
    It will probably become tight.



  • @Baron:

    Give Axis to less experienced players and Allies to more experienced ones.
    This can be a way to balance things without requiring other twists.

    If Allies lost, give Red Bomber to Allies.

    After 3 games, if all Axis wins, then goes to America First.

    IMO, dicing might occurs one way or another.
    It will probably become tight.

    TY very much!
    GG from France


  • 2018 2017

    The only thing I would add to the Baron’s input is that the America First (or turn A0) option calls for production AND non-combat movement. The reason for the non-combat movement is to allow the Flying Tigers to move to safety and to give the US player the choice to reinforce Pearl Harbor or to withdraw the Pacific Fleet back to the west coast.

    You don’t get combat movement or combat, but you do get the option of adjusting the American setup.

    -Midnight_Reaper


  • 2017 2016

    You get it right.
    It is an additional way, and the original developed with Black_Elk, to increase the Allies bonus to help them with USA R0.



  • @Midnight_Reaper:

    The only thing I would add to the Baron’s input is that the America First (or turn A0) option calls for production AND non-combat movement. The reason for the non-combat movement is to allow the Flying Tigers to move to safety and to give the US player the choice to reinforce Pearl Harbor or to withdraw the Pacific Fleet back to the west coast.

    You don’t get combat movement or combat, but you do get the option of adjusting the American setup.

    -Midnight_Reaper

    We will first play it with NO MOVEMENT AT ALL > Them after a few battles if the Allies are still underdog > We will allow non-combat move by USA


  • 2018 2017

    @GGleize:

    @Midnight_Reaper:

    The only thing I would add to the Baron’s input is that the America First (or turn A0) option calls for production AND non-combat movement. The reason for the non-combat movement is to allow the Flying Tigers to move to safety and to give the US player the choice to reinforce Pearl Harbor or to withdraw the Pacific Fleet back to the west coast.

    You don’t get combat movement or combat, but you do get the option of adjusting the American setup.

    -Midnight_Reaper

    We will first play it with NO MOVEMENT AT ALL > Them after a few battles if the Allies are still underdog > We will allow non-combat move by USA

    No need to shout. You do you.

    If you don’t mind, after you’ve tried it a few times, let us know what you think.

    -Midnight_Reaper



  • LOOOOL
    Sorry it’s not shouting!
    OK with pleasure!


  • 2017 2016

    I was thinking the same way than Reaper, Capital Letters bolded should be kept for titles or within units values subtitles.

    I agree on gradual changes on USA R0 playtests.
    Let us know how it evolves.



  • Just for info: I use capital and bold for titles … No screaming lol!

    OK we tried once with America First (with no move at all) —> It changed for many the game and the Allies immediately won with the help of America pushing hard both directions! OK we know we need many other tries because of the dice variance but next time we’ll try with the Red Bomber just to “feel” if it’s less helping Allies than America First.

    GG


  • 2017 2016

    Did Japan planned for Russsia  pincher with Germany through China?
    Russia is only 4 TTs away through Yunnan, Szechwan and Khazak SSR.



  • The point is America used a part of his IPCs from this option rule to buy a factory in China! This together with the biggest US Pacific fleet were very efficient!


  • 2017 2016

    Really?
    Japan cannot get ride of an IC producing 1 unit on USA R1?


  • 2018 2017

    @Baron:

    @GGleize:

    The point is America used a part of his IPCs from this option rule to buy a factory in China! This together with the biggest US Pacific fleet were very efficient!

    Really?
    Japan cannot get ride of an IC producing 1 unit on USA R1?

    I suspect that Japan got hung up on the “biggest US Pacific fleet” and stopped working against the Chinese. Whether that was to his benefit or not, that game was certainly different than a “normal” game of 1942.2 OOB…  :lol:

    -Midnight_Reaper



  • I promise we try hard - But we all know that de variation of the dice is an important factor too and we must all wait and try again and again before early conclusions!
    Did you guys try this “America First” option? I promise it’s a rude feeling for the axis (mostly the Japanese)!
    Let’s keep on looking for the ultimate balanced A&A set-up!


  • 2017 2016

    Nope for me.
    It is very interesting you try a no move USA0 built.
    I’ll keep reading your report.



  • We think also about each player to receive a ROUNDED number of IPC’s as their starting money:

    Russia 30 (+6)
    England 40 (+10)
    USA 50 (+8)

    That is Allies +24

    Germany 40 (-1)
    Japan 30 (0)

    That is Axis -1

    Only for the start: After they receive their normal incomes.
    Just another Idea … Simple / Fast / Stronger Allies.


  • 2018 2017

    @GGleize:

    We think also about each player to receive a ROUNDED number of IPC’s as their starting money:

    Russia 30 (+6)
    England 40 (+10)
    USA 50 (+8)

    That is Allies +24

    Germany 40 (-1)
    Japan 30 (0)

    That is Axis -1

    Only for the start: After they receive their normal incomes.
    Just another Idea … Simple / Fast / Stronger Allies.

    I like this idea a lot. It sort of would be a built-in bid, but it’s done in a slick way.

    -Midnight_Reaper



  • @Midnight_Reaper:

    @GGleize:

    We think also about each player to receive a ROUNDED number of IPC’s as their starting money:

    Russia 30 (+6)
    England 40 (+10)
    USA 50 (+8)

    That is Allies +24

    Germany 40 (-1)
    Japan 30 (0)

    That is Axis -1

    Only for the start: After they receive their normal incomes.
    Just another Idea … Simple / Fast / Stronger Allies.

    I like this idea a lot. It sort of would be a built-in bid, but it’s done in a slick way.

    -Midnight_Reaper

    TY Reaper
    For sure we have to test and test it again to see the influence of this house rule on the balance.
    Obviously it may help the allies … But witch way? I suppose less than a 25 classical bid because here the allies can only spend those extra IPCs a the stat of their turn so use the new units later! But it may immediately help:

    • Russia in instant defense and futur attacks … ?
    • Help England only in defense of India (because Germany will play before in Atlantic) and futur rebuilt of a fleet … ?
    • and help USA in both Atlantic (destroyers & transports) and Pacific (reinforcement of the fleet) … ?

  • 2017 2016

    Do you really need to lower down Germany?

    Going with OOB for Germany and Japan let’s Axis player planned their purchase as usual.
    There is already a good bid for Allies. Especially for Russia (any ground units at the centre is a bliss) and UK (+10) is far more able to rise India defense with another Fg traveling through Russia.



  • @Baron:

    Do you really need to lower down Germany?

    Going with OOB for Germany and Japan let’s Axis player planned their purchase as usual.
    There is already a good bid for Allies. Especially for Russia (any ground units at the centre is a bliss) and UK (+10) is far more able to rise India defense with another Fg traveling through Russia.

    It was not to lower Germany: The thema was also to ROUND all numbers for a fast set up also helping the Allies
    So it goes: ALLIES = 30+40+50 IPCs and AXIS = 40+30 IPCs
    And remember it’s ONLY the income of the first round! Then after their incomes are back to the normal territory points.

    Hence a +25 for the Allies
    OK It’s just a try and maybe you’re right saying it’s helping too much the allies but I would be curious to see the balance on the long run …
    … Knowing that it’s not exactly a Bid of 25 because the +25 reinforcements arrive later: They are not on the board at the start!


  • 2017 2016

    It is just that some hard core player usually have some prefered G1 and J1 purchase, since it is known. It allows Axis players to forsee and planned as usual.
    No change on their side. Only on Allies parts which naturally modified their play and purchase pattern due to income increase on first round.

    To me it appears less debatable to be agreed upon by Axis players, by not changing anything for them.



  • For info we played twice with this rule and the result is 1/1 … mmm …  
    Maybe it’s because we are not much experienced and we donno how to play the allies the best way as all newbies?

    Anyway this “Rounded IPCs” option rule seems to balance the game and we’ll keep on testing it! If it comes around 50/50 on the long run = Perfect … But if it comes around 55/45 for the allies (with better allies moves by more experienced players) = Let’s say it’s a more historical tendency and I feel like it’s normal for the Axis player to be the underdog trying the challenge to change history!

    And maybe the point is that as a frenchman I’m not too much fan of the Axis … Ha Ha!


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