Russia Question

@Leatherneckinlv:

Only thing missing is the verbal instructions by the Russians telling the Germans to withdraw leaving a decision by the Germans to either withdraw or declare war

So yes Russia may only attack the Italians and instruct the Germans to withdraw

This is not covered by the rulebooks in any way. Please read my above clarification.

@Leatherneckinlv:

Panther

Germany is not at war with Russia though….they are neutrals to one another

State of war only exists between Italy and Russia

They are not at war, but neither they are neutral. And the territory is Italian and no longer Russian.
And all of this leads to the fact that Russia has to declare war on Germany for being able to attack East Poland.

Midnight_Reaper had the correct quote from the rulebook about that (see above). Russia can’t attack without DOW on Germany.

Italians attack Russia, Germany is automatically at war with Russia, that is the assumption that my group has always used.

Another thing to remember is that Italy can-opening for Germany doesn’t stop Russia from declaring war on Germany and punching the Germans in the mouth (emphasis added):

@Axis:

The Political Situation
The Soviet Union
The Soviet Union begins the game at war with no one.
{snip}
As a result, the Soviet Union may not declare war on any Axis power before its fourth turn unless an Axis power declares war on it first. However, if London is captured by an Axis power, the Soviet Union may declare war on its following turn.

But you must declare war on Germany before you can attack a territory with German units inside.

-Midnight_Reaper

Russia can attack a Russian territory that has been captured. If the Germans move into that territory, after being captured, I think the assumption would be that they have also declared war on Russia.

If The Italians captured a Russian territory, and Germany did not go on a full blown offensive on their next turn, and instead decided to consolidate to the Italian captured territory, what would the purpose of this be? Show the Russians and ultimately the Allies exactly what direction you are going, and take it slow? Doesn’t make sense. And furthermore, the rules don’t make it very clear, but if the Italians attack the Russians and take a territory, and the Germans occupy it, that is a declaration of war. Total war in Europe begins.

Marshmallow of War, Midnight_Reaper, and P@nther are correct.  TripleA is handling this situation incorrectly.

@Leatherneckinlv:

Those who disagree….show me the rule…I have read said rule and this scenario is no where to be found

Midnight Reaper did quote the rule in like the 3rd post.

Pg 14 (from my Pacific 2nd edition book)
blow up box in top left corner:

“Powers Not at War with One Another”
3rd paragraph
Combat: A power can’t attack a territory controlled by or containing units belonging to a power with which it is not at war.

I’ve been quoting from the rule book. Read the “The Political Situation” section, “The Soviet Union” subsection, on page 9 and “Powers Not at War with One Another” section on page 15, from the Europe 1940 rule book. That’s where you will find what we’ve been quoting to you.

-Midnight_Reaper

@Leatherneckinlv:

Those rules do not apply in this scenario

Then which rules would apply? The rule books for Global 1940 are Europe 1940 and Pacific 1940. I’m quoting right out of the Europe 1940 rule book. If the rules from Europe 1940 don’t apply, which ones do?

@Leatherneckinlv:

The Soviet Union was attacked by Italy….both Germany and the USSR did not declare war with each other on their turns

True. Italy attacked the Soviets. And Germany is not required to declare war on the USSR just because Italy did.

@Leatherneckinlv:

That territory is AT WAR

Yes, it is. All of the territories in the USSR are at war with Italy once Italy declares war.

@Leatherneckinlv:

That territory is a Russian territory

No, it’s not. It was once Russian but once Italy took it from the USSR it became Italian territory.

@Leatherneckinlv:

Powers not at war applies to say Sweden….this is not the case

If the Power of Germany and the Power of the USSR aren’t at war, which rules would apply? If they are at War, then we have no reason to discuss this, so I would figure those rules would apply in this case.

@Leatherneckinlv:

I have read these rules over and over and over and none are applicable to this scenario….NONE

I can’t help that. All I can do is explain the rules as I see them.

@Leatherneckinlv:

Again….this was an originally controlled Russian territory…2 Italy declared war…Germany did not…Russia ONLY declared war on Italy and did not with the Germans and in fact Germans made sure not to declare war on Russia to collect it’s bonus

To break this down: Yes, East Poland was held by the USSR at the start of the game. Italy did declare war. Germany did not declare war. The USSR is at war with Italy and not (yet) at war with Germany. Germany tried to pull a fast one by reinforcing the Italian territory of East Poland without further insults to the dignity of the USSR. Germany was eligible to collect its bonus.

@Leatherneckinlv:

Folks….the rules do not indicate how to handle this properly

Sure the rules do: Either declare war on Germany and attack both the German and the Italian defenders of the Italian territory of East Poland or leave it alone.

@Leatherneckinlv:

Based on what I read this makes it a legal Russian move

The only way you can retreat, according to the rules, is to combat move into an attack and then to call off said attack. Defenders don’t retreat. Full Stop. So, you have two legal moves when it comes to East Poland - declare war on Germany and attack both the German and the Italian defenders of East Poland, or leave them be.

Although, perhaps what you should be thinking about is how everybody else in this forum, to include official rule moderators, are all saying the same things. Either everyone else is wrong or you have misunderstood the rules and then dug in your heels when corrected. But when Krieghund thinks you’ve misunderstood a rule, then you’ve misunderstood a rule.

My 2 IPCs

-Midnight_Reaper