Hostile Subs



  • Do enemy subs stop the ability of transports from loading during an amphibious assult


  • 2018 2017 2016

    Yes if they are in the same zone as where you are trying to load them.



  • @GeneralHandGrenade:

    Yes if they are in the same zone as where you are trying to load them.

    They preventing loading and unloading, right?


  • 2018 2017 2016

    They prevent unloading if they are not accompanied by a surface warship. If you have the warship you can either ignore the sub or kill him and then drop the land units off.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Official Answers TripleA Moderator

    @suprise:

    Do enemy subs stop the ability of transports from loading during an amphibious assult

    @GeneralHandGrenade:

    Yes if they are in the same zone as where you are trying to load them.

    @weddingsinger:

    They preventing loading and unloading, right?

    The presence of an enemy submarine does not make the seazone hostile. So the transport(s) may be loaded during Combat Move Phase.
    But it/they must be offloaded for an amphibious assault then.

    @GeneralHandGrenade:

    They prevent unloading if they are not accompanied by a surface warship. If you have the warship you can either ignore the sub or kill him and then drop the land units off.

    Not necessarily a surface warship. Any warship escorting the transport(s) at the end of the Combat Move Phase is fine for offloading the transport(s) despite the presence of ignored enemy submarines.


  • 2019 2017 2016

    Didn’t this rule change between first and second edition? Or am I getting confused?


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Official Answers TripleA Moderator

    @simon33:

    Didn’t this rule change between first and second edition? Or am I getting confused?

    The requirement of an escorting warship had not been present in the first edition ruleset.



  • I bit off topic, but I think there is an exception to loading transports in a hostile sz if you just declared war on that turn. Say Germany DOW on Russia, and the Russian cruiser is in sz113. I believe that the Germans can load their sz113 transports and use them that turn right?


  • 2019 2017 2016

    Yes.



  • @P@nther:

    @GeneralHandGrenade:

    They prevent unloading if they are not accompanied by a surface warship. If you have the warship you can either ignore the sub or kill him and then drop the land units off.

    Not necessarily a surface warship. Any warship escorting the transport(s) at the end of the Combat Move Phase is fine for offloading the transport(s) despite the presence of ignored enemy submarines.

    So you are saying that I can ignore enemy subs and amphib if I escort my transports with a sub of my own?


  • 2017 2015

    And a related situational question…transport starts in zone 1, moves through zone 2 (which contains an enemy transport), to zone 3 to load (which contains an enemy sub), and wants to unload in zone 2 (with the transport).  Is an escort needed in the zone 2 to unload?  Is destroying the transport with a plane enough, or would a friendly warship be needed there too?  Is destroying the transport needed?

    Thanks,
    Snigg


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Official Answers TripleA Moderator

    @WILD:

    @P@nther:

    @GeneralHandGrenade:

    They prevent unloading if they are not accompanied by a surface warship. If you have the warship you can either ignore the sub or kill him and then drop the land units off.

    Not necessarily a surface warship. Any warship escorting the transport(s) at the end of the Combat Move Phase is fine for offloading the transport(s) despite the presence of ignored enemy submarines.

    So you are saying that I can ignore enemy subs and amphib if I escort my transports with a sub of my own?

    Correct, as a submarine is a warship.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Official Answers TripleA Moderator

    @Snigg:

    And a related situational question…transport starts in zone 1, moves through zone 2 (which contains an enemy transport), to zone 3 to load (which contains an enemy sub), and wants to unload in zone 2 (with the transport).  Is an escort needed in the zone 2 to unload?  Is destroying the transport with a plane enough, or would a friendly warship be needed there too?  Is destroying the transport needed?

    This move needs three steps. So in case you are not starting from a sea base unloading would take place during the next round’s combat move phase. Loading has to take place during the prior round’s Noncombat Move Phase, then. But: The sub in SZ 3 would engage your transport on the sub owner’s next turn then. So in this case you need to support your loaded transport in order to defend it.

    However:

    • The enemy transport does not make seazone 2 hostile, neither does the sub in seazone 3.
    • An escort in SZ2 to unload is not necessary, as there is no enemy submarine.
    • Destroying the transport is not needed.
    • In case you want to destroy the transport, a sea battle will take place and you may destroy it with any appropriate unit with an attack value.

  • 2017 2015

    Thanks!  That’s how I thought it should work, TripleA didn’t want to let my transport move back to zone 2 for some reason.  I had started at a naval base, so had the 3 move points to do in one turn.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Official Answers TripleA Moderator

    @Snigg:

    Thanks!  That’s how I thought it should work, TripleA didn’t want to let my transport move back to zone 2 for some reason.  I had started at a naval base, so had the 3 move points to do in one turn.

    TripleA should handle this correctly. Can you provide a savegame please? If yes, please open a thread in the software subforum and attach it there.
    In case it is a forum game please just point me to the post where the situation occurred. Thank you.

    Edit:
    I have just recreated the scenario in TripleA and it has been played out correctly. So there must be a ‘special’ reason behind your issue…


  • 2017 2015

    @P@nther:

    @Snigg:

    Thanks!  That’s how I thought it should work, TripleA didn’t want to let my transport move back to zone 2 for some reason.  I had started at a naval base, so had the 3 move points to do in one turn.

    TripleA should handle this correctly. Can you provide a savegame please? If yes, please open a thread in the software subforum and attach it there.
    In case it is a forum game please just point me to the post where the situation occurred. Thank you.

    Edit:
    I have just recreated the scenario in TripleA and it has been played out correctly. So there must be a ‘special’ reason behind your issue…

    It was my Japanese move right after this saved Russian turn. Transport next to FIC to so 35 to Celebes back to 35 was the move

    https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41322.msg1737645#msg1737645


  • 2017 2015

    At the time it would let me move to other sz for the last move but not back to 35


  • 2019 2017 2016

    You can’t move a transport in NCM that you’ve moved in combat move any more, IIRC.

    Also, there was a battle in SZ35 to kill the defenceless transport. That’s another reason why you wouldn’t be able to move from SZ35.


  • 2017 2015

    @simon33:

    You can’t move a transport in NCM that you’ve moved in combat move any more, IIRC.

    Also, there was a battle in SZ35 to kill the defenceless transport. That’s another reason why you wouldn’t be able to move from SZ35.

    It was all combat moves. Move to 43 I think it was to pick up and then to 35 for amphibious assault


  • 2019 2017 2016

    Interesting. I can duplicate the problem if I do the CM in three steps. If you ctrl-click to go from SZ36 to SZ43 via SZ35 in one go, Triple-A allows it.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Official Answers TripleA Moderator

    @simon33:

    Interesting. I can duplicate the problem if I do the CM in three steps. If you ctrl-click to go from SZ36 to SZ43 via SZ35 in one go, Triple-A allows it.

    … and my recreated scenario allowed the moves in two steps, too (see attached file) …

    … and I can confirm simon33’s observation that Snigg’s scenario would work in two steps, too, by moving from 36 to 44 via 35 as step 1 - then load - then move from 44 to 35 as step 2.

    test1.tsvg


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