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Capture of Neutrals (i.e. Turkey) by Russia - Pro-Axis bonus?


  • 2017 Customizer

    Hi,

    If Russia invades Turkey, does it get the 3 IPC bonus for occupying a Pro-Axis territory (as an invaded neutral become Pro-Axis)?

    if no, then what about the next one it invades, as all neutrals become Pro-Axis?

    Thank you, SJ



  • @sjelso:

    Hi,

    If Russia invades Turkey, does it get the 3 IPC bonus for occupying a Pro-Axis territory (as an invaded neutral become Pro-Axis)?

    if no, then what about the next one it invades, as all neutrals become Pro-Axis?

    Thank you, SJ

    The Russian NO of taking Pro Axis neutral’s is limited to the countries that start the game pro-axis. IF the true neutral’s are invaded by the Allies they become pro-axis at that point BUT the Russian NO states it is only concerned with countries who start the war pro-axis or Axis held original territories.

    That is why some sneaky gits want to invade Sardinia and Sicily with Russian ground troops to get the +6IPC bonus.



  • The NO uses the word “original” pro Axis.

    I would say this includes only at game start pro Axis. Not countries changing from one to another type of political view.


  • 2017 Customizer

    Good info…Thanks!


  • 2018 2017

    We spieled all this out a few months ago, but you can also take the 4 Italian territories, in continental Africa, and Iraq, with Russia and get +12-15 extra bucks.


  • 2019 2017 2016

    @taamvan:

    We spieled all this out a few months ago, but you can also take the 4 Italian territories, in continental Africa, and Iraq, with Russia and get +12-15 extra bucks.

    Which is a very cheesy loophole in the rules.



  • @simon33:

    @taamvan:

    We spieled all this out a few months ago, but you can also take the 4 Italian territories, in continental Africa, and Iraq, with Russia and get +12-15 extra bucks.

    Which is a very cheesy loophole in the rules.

    Not really, it’s not like Russia can rush those territories. If any territory is cheesy, that would be Norway and Finland.



  • @Caesar:

    @simon33:

    @taamvan:

    We spieled all this out a few months ago, but you can also take the 4 Italian territories, in continental Africa, and Iraq, with Russia and get +12-15 extra bucks.

    Which is a very cheesy loophole in the rules.

    Not really, it’s not like Russia can rush those territories. If any territory is cheesy, that would be Norway and Finland.

    Well it is cheesy because the NO is clearly designed for europe and unlike europe afrika is a purely UK mather.
    Norway-Finland are both protected by the german navy and by the push to the north, afrika and middle east are not protected by the axis it just takes 1 mech to drive through the whole area and gobble up a huge NO bonus.



  • Again, not really. assuming German or Italy doesn’t invade until turn four and USSR placed a mech in southern and USSR doesn’t have to stop to invade Iraq, USSR can’t reach Italian colonies until turn 7 which is more than enough time for the Axis to reinforce plus it’s also somewhat hard for UK not to take them. However with Finland and Norway, assuming the allies destroyed the German transport and it wasn’t replaced, it doesn’t take much effort for USSR to invade those territories.


  • 2019 2017 2016

    It is a ridiculous assumption that there will be no Euro DOW until G4.



  • @Caesar:

    Again, not really. assuming German or Italy doesn’t invade until turn four and USSR placed a mech in southern and USSR doesn’t have to stop to invade Iraq, USSR can’t reach Italian colonies until turn 7 which is more than enough time for the Axis to reinforce plus it’s also somewhat hard for UK not to take them. However with Finland and Norway, assuming the allies destroyed the German transport and it wasn’t replaced, it doesn’t take much effort for USSR to invade those territories.

    Russia can be in iraq the turn germany declares war.
    2 turns later it will be in an italian colony that cannot be reinforced by the axis at all unless they take and hold egypt.
    The same applies to the north, if the invasion is G4 then russia can be in finland G6 ( thats 1 turn later then iraq ) and at the same time in norway as normaly in somaliland.
    Or do you expect germany to empty the north completely and give it away for free?

    There are plenty of german forces north ( at least 7 inf ), most of the time some more that came by transport.
    How will the allied destroy the transport, its pretty safe in the baltic.



  • @ShadowHAwk:

    @Caesar:

    Again, not really. assuming German or Italy doesn’t invade until turn four and USSR placed a mech in southern and USSR doesn’t have to stop to invade Iraq, USSR can’t reach Italian colonies until turn 7 which is more than enough time for the Axis to reinforce plus it’s also somewhat hard for UK not to take them. However with Finland and Norway, assuming the allies destroyed the German transport and it wasn’t replaced, it doesn’t take much effort for USSR to invade those territories.

    Russia can be in iraq the turn germany declares war.
    2 turns later it will be in an italian colony that cannot be reinforced by the axis at all unless they take and hold egypt.
    The same applies to the north, if the invasion is G4 then russia can be in finland G6 ( thats 1 turn later then iraq ) and at the same time in norway as normaly in somaliland.
    Or do you expect germany to empty the north completely and give it away for free?

    There are plenty of german forces north ( at least 7 inf ), most of the time some more that came by transport.
    How will the allied destroy the transport, its pretty safe in the baltic.

    You’re missing my point, it’s easier to get USSR into Norway than it is for Ethopia or Libya. I’ve played this game enough to know that I chase the German Transport with USSR navy so when they go to war, they can’t load it on the same turn thus requiring Germany to sink the Red navy ASAP. Point being is that Italian colonies take longer to reach hence why people put heavy agreement that USSR taking Iraq is useful, the downfall of that plan is that it is not 100% because Italy in theory, could beat USSR to Iraq hence why most UK players just go for it.


  • 2019 2017 2016

    You appear to be ignorant of the exception.

    @Pac:

    During your
    Combat Move phase in which you entered into a
    state of war, your transports that are already in sea
    zones that have just become hostile may be loaded
    in those sea zones (but not in other hostile sea
    zones). In effect, transports may be loaded in their
    initial sea zones for amphibious assaults before war
    is declared, while the sea zone is still friendly.



  • @simon33:

    You appear to be ignorant of the exception.

    @Pac:

    During your
    Combat Move phase in which you entered into a
    state of war, your transports that are already in sea
    zones that have just become hostile may be loaded
    in those sea zones (but not in other hostile sea
    zones). In effect, transports may be loaded in their
    initial sea zones for amphibious assaults before war
    is declared, while the sea zone is still friendly.

    Negative, because you implied that unit stops Germany from loading, I know it doesn’t. What it forces the Kreigsmarine to do is either force the transport away from where I want it or it forces other ships to now protect this transport which is a win for the Red Navy regardless because it will pull units away from intent and thus helping the allies in the end.



  • @ShadowHAwk:

    Russia can be in iraq the turn germany declares war.

    May I ask how?  You can’t blitz a neutral and Iraq is blocked by NW Persia.  Shouldn’t it take Russia until DOW+2 to get Iraq?



  • If G1 or G2 DOW, you are correct. After that however, Britain can get there and activate NW Persia beforehand allowing Soviet mechs/tanks to move and attack Iraq.


  • 2018 2017

    We did this whole gambit a couple of plays ago and it worked great.  Russian income by turn 6-8 was preserved for quite a while despite the German takes (and the Russian exped. force leavign makes Russia weaker on the offense)

    The only problem with this is that you as the British have to just ignore the Italians and let them wander around the desert because if Uk takes the territories first, Russia cant.  so there is a big wait by both teams, which leaves you with not particularly much to do.  Probably must do well at Taranto, because if you don’t, the Italians can double team you with their fleet plus the forces UK ignored.

    People say they can load the Russian men onto transports for the islands but this has always proven unworkable for me (esp. because the islands are in the SZ without the convoy…and you have to sit there stacked up for multiple turns, Germany usually zaps you)



  • So obviously some Italian territories can’t be avoided, I have only seen Ethopia once get destroyed but not captured. However because Ethopia is so hard for Italy to hold on, they usually take the infantry on Somalia and take Kenya since that infantry is lost leaving Somalia almost guaranteed for USSR unless Italy knows this coming. Norther African territories is 50/50 half of the time depending if the Italian navy survived and if Italy is going to can open for Germany or try to get to Egypt. However I have seen USSR control five territories near by, all of Italian territories and Iraq. Iraq is the closest but ironically one of the hardest because it requires USSR to position troops near by to take it, wait to go to war, and all of this depends if Iraq doesn’t get taken by UK and if Italy doesn’t get in Syria or Jordon to try to take it themselves.


  • 2018 2017

    Good observation, CS,

    If your opponent intends to do the USSR-Xped force, the tell/reveal will be that:

    UK refuses to destroy the Italian troops in the Horn on UK1 AND
    that Russia either builds or positions forces near NWP at peace during R1-R2

    Since UK almost always attacks the Italians in Africa relentlessly, the fact that he does not do it on turn 1 should tell Italy all it needs to know.



  • Yeah, the issue is that I would like Ethopia in USSR hands, it is one that is avoidable, like I said, I have seen a USSR marker on it but I wasn’t playing this game so I didn’t see how it came. However, I usually have no problem getting to Somalia, and the northern African territories can be confusing because in my case, UK had Italy on a stalemate front line not pressing so Italy had no reason to assume what I was doing until of course he saw me bring my mech. into Africa.


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