Grasshopper's 8 Sided System (G40)

  • Sponsor

    GRASSHOPPER’S 8 SIDED SYSTEM
    I have found that many of the problems with G40 unit profile values can be solved by using an 8 sided die. By adding 2 points of value to the attack and defense spectrum, we see that Cruisers, Battleships, Infantry, Artillery, Tanks etc… are much better represented in comparison to each other. Below is a list of each G40 unit and where they now land in this 8 sided system, also listed is their increase and decrease % chance of hitting in comparison to their odds in the old 6 sided system. All that is needed to play this system is some 8 sided dice and a custom battle board which will all be available to the community soon. We suggest playing with the 8 sided system as an alternative to rolling 6 sided dice, no other rules need to be changed or added in order to plat this way. However, we have added 1 combined arms to all the originals which states "When artillery is combined with infantry or mech infantry, their attack value increases to 3/8.

    Attack
    1/8 - (12.5%)
    Infantry (-16.7%)
    Mech Infantry (-16.7%)
    Aircraft Carrier (+12.5%)

    2/8 - (25%)
    Infantry w/Artillery (-33%)
    Mech Infantry w/Artillery (-33%)
    Artillery (-33%)
    Destroyer (-33%)

    3/8 - (37.5%)
    Artillery w/Infantry or Mech Infantry (+33%)
    Submarine (+33%)

    4/8 - (50%)
    Tank (0%)
    Fighter (0%)
    Tactical Bomber (0%)

    5/8 - (62.5%)
    Strategic Bomber (-66.7%)
    Cruiser (+50%)
    Tactical Bomber w/Fighter or w/Tank (-66.7%)

    6/8 - (75%)
    Battleship (+66.7%)

    Defense
    1/8 - (12.5%)
    AA Guns (-16.7%)
    Strategic Bomber (-16.7%)
    Submarine (-16.7%)

    2/8 - (25%)
    Infantry (-33%)
    Mech Infantry (-33%)
    Artillery (-33%)
    Aircraft Carrier (-33%)

    3/8 - (37.5%)
    Destroyer (+33%)

    4/8 - (50%)
    Tank (0%)
    Tactical Bomber (0%)

    5/8 - (62.5%)
    Fighter (- 66.7%)
    Cruiser (+50%)

    6/8 - (75%)
    Battleship (+66.7%)

    Strategic bombing air combat values

    1/8 - (12.5%)
    Tac Bomber (-16.7%)
    Strategic Bomber (-16.7)

    2/8 - (25%)
    Fighter interceptor (+16.7%)
    Fighter escort (+16.7%)

    Bombing Raid 1d8 per Bomber +2 = facility damage

    Kamikaze Token defense values

    2/8 - (25%)
    Kamikaze Token (-33%)

    *Special thanks to Big Al “Mike Tyson” for contributing in this idea & Baron Munchhausen for his calculations.

  • Sponsor

    Here are the dice we suggest using for this system, they roll much better than the typical diamond shaped 8 sider.

    31PwnLsE4bL.jpg

  • 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Young:

    Here are the dice we suggest using for this system, they roll much better than the typical diamond shaped 8 sider.

    These dice look great.  Thanks for this alternative to those diamond-shaped ones, which I’ve never liked.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    @Young:

    Here are the dice we suggest using for this system, they roll much better than the typical diamond shaped 8 sider.

    Grassy  Let me know when these are available for sale please.

  • Sponsor

    @SS:

    @Young:

    Here are the dice we suggest using for this system, they roll much better than the typical diamond shaped 8 sider.

    Grassy, Let me know when these are available for sale please.

    They’re available right now in many different colors, they’re also a little pricy so I suggest getting the 5 for $8.00 deal.

    http://www.mathartfun.com/DiceLabDice.html

    I already have mine and will be making a video soon… speaking of videos, here’s one from dice labs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r5DxgCcgQM

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    Thank You very much !

  • '14

    @Young:

    GRASSHOPPER’S 8 SIDED SYSTEM

    2/8 - (25%)
    Infantry w/Artillery (-33%)
    Mech Infantry w/Artillery (-33%)

    3/8 - (37.5%)
    Artillery w/Infantry or Mech Infantry (+33%)

    You officially have me confused! What is the difference between the 2 and 3 hit values for the artillery w/ infantry vs the infantry w/ artillery :?

  • Sponsor

    What would an artillery attack value be with just a tank? What would an infantry attack value be with just a fighter, now what would an artillery attack value and an infantry attack value be if they fought together?


  • I agree with wartorn…the chart seems to contradict the rule that all units have their attack/defense increased by 2 and +1 for combined arms.


  • now for the top level question.

    What is the purpose of using a d8 system? To level out the odds of a very lopsided battle result? make the results fall more to the mean or average? Reward combined arms for better results on offense?

    as an example.

    World in Flames went from a d6 to a 2d10 system to average out the combat results and reward combined arms types of combats. The two games are not apples to apples but the principal is the same……average out the results of combats but still allow for that glorious roll.

  • '14

    I get it now. Artillery increases by 1 as well as the mechs and infantry. Not like the OOB rules that the artillery stays the same and the others just increase.

  • Sponsor

    @PainState:

    now for the top level question.

    What is the purpose of using a d8 system? To level out the odds of a very lopsided battle result? make the results fall more to the mean or average? Reward combined arms for better results on offense?

    as an example.

    World in Flames went from a d6 to a 2d10 system to average out the combat results and reward combined arms types of combats. The two games are not apples to apples but the principal is the same……average out the results of combats but still allow for that glorious roll.

    For me it simply spaces out 14 units on an 8 sided spectrum instead of cramming them into a 6 sided spectrum. It also allows subtle increases or decreases in odds for some units that seem to weak or to strong under the current system.

  • Sponsor

    @warTorn:

    I get it now. Artillery increases by 1 as well as the mechs and infantry. Not like the OOB rules that the artillery stays the same and the others just increase.

    Correct, we did this so that the majority of land units won’t be stuck in the lower 1/8 and 2/8 spectrum.

  • 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Young:

    For me it simply spaces out 14 units on an 8 sided spectrum instead of cramming them into a 6 sided spectrum. It also allows subtle increases or decreases in odds for some units that seem to weak or to strong under the current system.

    Yes, that’s a good point.  A wider distribution allows a finer gradation of results.  Or, to look at it from the opposite direction, the narrower the distribution is, the closer you get to a binary hit/miss system that resembles flipping a coin rather than rolling dice.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    These dice are sweet. Only took 3 days to get from Arizona. Now all I need is d10s. I think I may have bookmarked the site on one of my computers.

    I will use the d8s for my Stg Bombers and Rockets for SBR. Thanks again YG.

    image1(2).png


  • I know im biased about this…
    but I think this system is a great “refresh” with the old system…
    this is needed after all these years of being cramped in a six sided system…
    look forward to the battleboards and anything else that comes about with this new system

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    @bigalmeacham:

    I know im biased about this…
    but I think this system is a great “refresh” with the old system…
    this is needed after all these years of being cramped in a six sided system…
    look forward to the battleboards and anything else that comes about with this new system

    This is exactly how I feel about it, and why I’m right in line with Grasshopper on it. Alot of future and possibilities in a slightly expanded dice system.

  • 2022 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '12

    Interesting, for a long time I’ve been thinking just using the regular A/D value system w/8 sided dice would loosen things up in terms of downplaying crazy luck, i.e. suppressing the number of lucky 1’s.  But never put much thought into it.  This looks interesting.

    Why the adjusted A/D values for certain units though?  Keeping inf at 1 and cost 3 vs ftr now at 5 at cost 10 seems a little overpowered for the ftr.

    That being said, I think this is an idea whose time has come.

  • '17 '16 '15

    Actually the ftr is a little less powerful. It was 2 out of 3 = 66.7%
    It’s now 5 out of 8 = 62.5%

    Offense is same.

    I agree. I like this idea a lot. Hope to try it soon

    Edit
    Ahh I see your point now. Sorry : )

  • '17 '16

    @Karl7:

    Interesting, for a long time I’ve been thinking just using the regular A/D value system w/8 sided dice would loosen things up in terms of downplaying crazy luck, i.e. suppressing the number of lucky 1’s.  But never put much thought into it.  This looks interesting.

    Why the adjusted A/D values for certain units though?  Keeping inf at 1 and cost 3 vs ftr now at 5 at cost 10 seems a little overpowered for the ftr.

    That being said, I think this is an idea whose time has come.

    IMO, the issue about lucky “1” swing is due to higher cost unit being submitted to such defense roll.
    When giving more reasonable cost and combat value instead, loosing to a lucky “1” is easier to deal with bad luck.

  • '17 '16 '15

    This 8-sided malarky is preposterous!

    It will never work!

    Not until someone makes those lovely rounded d8’s with the nations flag symbol in place of the ‘number 1’.  Then this will be one of the greatest tweaks to an already excellent game, and praise will rain down to it’s creators.

    Until then….bin it…ludicrous.

    😉

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    @WoodyWanKenobi:

    This 8-sided malarky is preposterous!

    It will never work!

    Not until someone makes those lovely rounded d8’s with the nations flag symbol in place of the ‘number 1’.  Then this will be one of the greatest tweaks to an already excellent game, and praise will rain down to it’s creators.

    Until then….bin it…ludicrous.

    😉

    😢 😢 😢 😢

  • '17 Customizer

    Looks interesting.  Would like to get some blank dice to make hit dice.

    Strategic bombing is so difficult and costly already I seldom use or see it used.  Lowering the % seems as though it would render it completely unusable.

    Just my 2 cents…

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    The cruiser is more like a heavy cruiser or battlecruiser at 5-5 vs the battleship at 6-6

    I suggest a new unit light cruiser at 4-4, your heavy cruiser at 5-5 and BB at 6-6

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizer

    You are referring to the St Bomber getting a lower defense percentage shot ?
    What if YG put in a SBR roll 1d8 +2 = damage per bomber ?

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